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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 16:28:25 GMT
Thanks for posting the full text D.
I don't think I have anything to add, he's spot on and you can't help but be a little moved by the genuine sadness that he feels.
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Sneelock
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Post by Sneelock on Nov 6, 2019 17:20:46 GMT
I'm not as pessimistic as D.Fish. I agree with his thought process but we part ways because I think there's a lot of great work on TV right now and maybe because it needn't target those most likely to be spending money at the movies.
I remember Marty making a big noise when "Roma" was nominated at the Academy Awards. His argument was similar to the one he's making there. movies are made to be seen on the big screen and bla bla bla. I don't disagree with any of that but I thought "Roma" was richly deserving to be considered as a Best Picture Nominee just as I'm sure Marty now believes "the Irishman" would also be deserving.
I worked movie theatres for a lot of years. many movies were released in the hope that they will be critical favorites and might win awards. well, in those days the movies would often show to just a few people during these runs. if there was not a single person in the theater - the movie would still run. This kept the remaining showings of the day on schedule. well, somewhere between then and now the distributors and exhibitors are less and less likely to take a risk on a movie getting good reviews. the process has been sped up with how we get our movies to watch and how we talk about them.
you look at our "now viewing" threads and a lot of that stuff is new and a lot of it is really good. Look, I understand the whole "they don't make 'em like they used to" argument and they don't. I could watch a movie every day made before 1980 until the day I die and watch nothing but good movies. BUT, I'd be missing a lot of good movies and many of those are pretty recent.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 17:37:50 GMT
I think he was lamenting Hollywood, more than films generally, although there was a further connected point about exhibition too. Does Hollywood still make good films..?
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Post by Sneelock on Nov 6, 2019 18:20:18 GMT
well, the Hollywood system still profits from good films but they're perfectly happy to let other people make them if need be.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Nov 6, 2019 19:09:10 GMT
It does make sense though to aim films at that young demographic that G mentions. Most people between 25 and 45 have kids, and if you have kids, you don't tend to spend a rare baby-sitting pass on going to the cinema, films are something you watch when you're stuck at home of an evening. And I guess by the time you're older, you've just lost the habit of going to the cinema. Personally, unless it's another in a long line of cheapo horror films, I don't tend to even think about watching anything made after the early 90s. The combination of blockbuster 'spectacle' cinema, coupled with the ready easiness of CGI seemed to ruin film. All artistry was stripped out, films that were about something stopped being made. I look at the homogenous list of action films and Marvel (or Marvel-esque) crap that appears on Netflix and Amazon prime, and nothing stands out whatsoever. It's movies for people who spend too much time playing computer games. I see a lot of similarities there. One of the sad things for me in the last few years is the attitude of millennials I work with towards the cinema. Fucking Netflix, fuck off. Wall to wall shit with a handful of good telly shows thrown in. I've had a few conversations with people where I've tried to explain the power of cinema but I feel like Robert Crumb or summat. I took a mate to see 2001 and she said it was "cheesy". I give up. |
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Post by fonz on Nov 7, 2019 16:18:17 GMT
It does make sense though to aim films at that young demographic that G mentions. Most people between 25 and 45 have kids, and if you have kids, you don't tend to spend a rare baby-sitting pass on going to the cinema, films are something you watch when you're stuck at home of an evening. And I guess by the time you're older, you've just lost the habit of going to the cinema. Personally, unless it's another in a long line of cheapo horror films, I don't tend to even think about watching anything made after the early 90s. The combination of blockbuster 'spectacle' cinema, coupled with the ready easiness of CGI seemed to ruin film. All artistry was stripped out, films that were about something stopped being made. I look at the homogenous list of action films and Marvel (or Marvel-esque) crap that appears on Netflix and Amazon prime, and nothing stands out whatsoever. It's movies for people who spend too much time playing computer games. I see a lot of similarities there. One of the sad things for me in the last few years is the attitude of millennials I work with towards the cinema. Fucking Netflix, fuck off. Wall to wall shit with a handful of good telly shows thrown in. I've had a few conversations with people where I've tried to explain the power of cinema but I feel like Robert Crumb or summat. I took a mate to see 2001 and she said it was "cheesy". I give up. ‘it’ or the film? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 17:33:21 GMT
I was surprised to see how defensive people were about the original quote - James GUNN, people like that. If Martin Fuckin' Scorcese can't have an opinion about what is and isn't "cinema" then who can? Ditto. But then, I'm not a huge fan of those Avengers movies. Bad guy looms, Avengers gather, run around and fight bad guy - that's it. They strike me as those old Flash Gordon serials with a big budget and CGI. |
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Post by Sneelock on Nov 7, 2019 18:03:49 GMT
I think that's fair but (speaking as someone who still watches "Flash Gordon" serials) that they've added some other things too like character development (such as it is) and comedy relief.
A couple of those things REALLY make my head hurt but overall I can buy it as escapism. When Marty says "cinema" he means "wages of fear" type shit. Do I think "Iron Man 3" is on the same level as "wages of fear"? LOL. of course not.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 20:58:28 GMT
I think that's fair but (speaking as someone who still watches "Flash Gordon" serials) that they've added some other things too like character development (such as it is) and comedy relief. A couple of those things REALLY make my head hurt but overall I can buy it as escapism. When Marty says "cinema" he means "wages of fear" type shit. Do I think "Iron Man 3" is on the same level as "wages of fear"? LOL. of course not. That's the thing Scorsese forgets. Abbott and Costello Meets the Wolfman was pretty funny. It's no fun eating fancy every night. Some days I like a bologna sandwich. |
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Nov 8, 2019 13:41:50 GMT
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Post by Crunchy Col on Nov 8, 2019 13:46:04 GMT
I think that's fair but (speaking as someone who still watches "Flash Gordon" serials) that they've added some other things too like character development (such as it is) and comedy relief. A couple of those things REALLY make my head hurt but overall I can buy it as escapism. When Marty says "cinema" he means "wages of fear" type shit. Do I think "Iron Man 3" is on the same level as "wages of fear"? LOL. of course not. That's the thing Scorsese forgets. Abbott and Costello Meets the Wolfman was pretty funny. It's no fun eating fancy every night. Some days I like a bologna sandwich. I don't know that he was complaining about movies not being serious enough, more the whole 'cookie cutter' approach to filmmaking today |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 14:55:17 GMT
I think that's fair but (speaking as someone who still watches "Flash Gordon" serials) that they've added some other things too like character development (such as it is) and comedy relief. A couple of those things REALLY make my head hurt but overall I can buy it as escapism. When Marty says "cinema" he means "wages of fear" type shit. Do I think "Iron Man 3" is on the same level as "wages of fear"? LOL. of course not. That's the thing Scorsese forgets. Abbott and Costello Meets the Wolfman was pretty funny. It's no fun eating fancy every night. Some days I like a bologna sandwich. I don't think he does forget it, in the quoted article he makes a point of mentioning more pulpy or mainstream genre films alongside the 'arthouse' type films. However to stretch your analogy further, isn't the problem here that you've got ten restaurants in your town to choose from, but they're all only serving bologna sandwiches..?
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Post by DarknessFish on Nov 8, 2019 15:46:47 GMT
Cynical and non-cynical observations from me. Firstly, this is the last film I saw in the cinema, with my son. The impact this scene had on him I can still picture as clear as day. As Black Panther emerged from the spinning portal thing, he nudged me with the biggest look of delight on his face, and started doing the tribal ybambe thing he does. He loves Black Panther, and I kinda think its cool that a 11 year old (as was then, 12 now) kid identifies with an African superhero without questioning origins or quality of CGI. Secondly, I'm not 11 or 12, and am thus harder to please. It's shot and soundtracked like an insurance advert targeted at over 60s. It's bollocks. |
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Post by Sneelock on Nov 8, 2019 15:54:45 GMT
you know, I liked that movie but the ending had my butt squirming. all critics who say the movies are made to attract gamers as moviegoers sound reasonable when you see scenes like that.
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Post by Sneelock on Nov 8, 2019 15:57:00 GMT
That's the thing Scorsese forgets. Abbott and Costello Meets the Wolfman was pretty funny. It's no fun eating fancy every night. Some days I like a bologna sandwich. I don't think he does forget it, in the quoted article he makes a point of mentioning more pulpy or mainstream genre films alongside the 'arthouse' type films. However to stretch your analogy further, isn't the problem here that you've got ten restaurants in your town to choose from, but they're all only serving bologna sandwiches..?
are the waitresses hot? As always, I like seeing Martin Scorcese fight the good fight. He fought it for film preservation. He's championed film makers like Anthony Mann and Abraham Polonsky who are now regarded as artists by many which is better than not being regarded at all. I agree with him about seeing movies on the big screen, I just don't think the general release is where we are going to see it. I'll make an effort to see "The Irishman" in a theater. I streamed "Dolemite is my Name" and it's the best Eddie Murphy movie I've seen in a long time. Do I wish I'd used a tank of gas, drove across town and seen it on the big screen? Hell No. Back to Jerry Lewis, it doesn't take much effort to dig up a shit-ton of praise Marty has layed on Jerry. I even agree that Jerry deserves it. Jerry Lewis made some innovations in flim making technique and distribution. I think it's also judiciously fair to describe a great many of Jerry Lewis' movies as baloney sandwiches. Marty don't like Marvel movies. I'm cool with that. frankly, I'd be disappointed if he did. I still haven't made it through his 3D "Family" movie. Movies copy the success of others. If "Jo Jo Rabbit" makes a bazillion dollars then the next "artsy" general release would probably be wider. If not "jo jo" then something else. people go to theatres to see "event" movies but they also go to 'zeitgeist' movies too. this is a fickle thing. in the 80's they stopped caring about older audiences altogether then "On Golden Pond" made a pile of money (for some reason) and the big screens filled with Oldsters for a couple of years. he's right - they are amusement park rides. but, on the other hand, they are keeping the big screens there. if it weren't for the "big tent" movies I doubt we'd have anywhere near the number of movie screens we do now. |
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