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Post by Sneelock on Nov 14, 2019 1:02:27 GMT
I just figured out I got Patti Smith's "Wave" like 40 years ago. So, naturally I was listening to "Easter". I was going to ask you what you thought about one of the tracks but I didn't see you around anywhere. I started a poll instead.
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Post by Charlie O. on Nov 14, 2019 1:24:52 GMT
I think the lyric is well-intentioned, which doesn't really make it any less "what the HELL was she thinking?"
And in "what the HELL was Patti thinking?" terms, it somehow offends me less than "Strange Messengers" or "Radio Baghdad".
I think the music was far less sluggish when it was "Toys In The Attic".
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fange
god
Listening to long jazz tracks
Posts: 4,552
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Post by fange on Nov 14, 2019 5:21:22 GMT
There's the idea that if it's art or poetry it's a bit different, no? It's making a statement of some kind. Is that no longer acceptable in any way?
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Nov 14, 2019 11:11:31 GMT
Lennon used the word in a title too. They were trying to make a point, maybe, but it's boring.
And nowhere near as offensive as Mr. 'You're OBSOLETE mah baby!' Jagger
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Post by Cousin Lou on Nov 14, 2019 11:36:24 GMT
There are more lyrics from white musicians containing the word. Guns n Roses, Stiff Little Fingers, Japan.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Nov 14, 2019 11:38:06 GMT
The Fall
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Post by Charlie O. on Nov 14, 2019 14:00:12 GMT
Dylan.
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Post by Charlie O. on Nov 14, 2019 14:10:09 GMT
With Patti's song, it isn't just the word that offends, but the idea of equating the shit a misunderstood artist has to put up with with the shit that black people have had to put up with. I don't personally know any black people who would concede her point.
Beyond that, she seems to be embracing Lenny Bruce's idea that if we wear such epithets proudly or even just cavalierly, we can rob them of their power to hurt. A nice idea, but again, I doubt you could find many black people for whom that works in real life.
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Post by osgood on Nov 14, 2019 14:53:01 GMT
Randy Newman
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Post by oleandermedian on Nov 14, 2019 17:22:27 GMT
Costello
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 17:55:02 GMT
It ain't our word anymore.
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Post by tg on Nov 16, 2019 1:00:30 GMT
Beyond it being offensive and a bit dopey; it’s not a very good song. She’s written far better ones any number of times.
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toomanyhatz
god
I've met him/her. He/she's great!!
Posts: 3,239
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Post by toomanyhatz on Nov 16, 2019 2:02:44 GMT
With Patti's song, it isn't just the word that offends, but the idea of equating the shit a misunderstood artist has to put up with with the shit that black people have had to put up with. I don't personally know any black people who would concede her point. Beyond that, she seems to be embracing Lenny Bruce's idea that if we wear such epithets proudly or even just cavalierly, we can rob them of their power to hurt. A nice idea, but again, I doubt you could find many black people for whom that works in real life. This. I don't think she has bad intentions, but I think her notion is based on a false premise - artists can certainly suggest interpretations, but they can't rewrite language - only society as a whole can do that. It's a social contract in which maybe writers have a bigger stake/more power, but it's arrogant to think that it wholly or primarily determines it. I love her to death, but in this particular case, she's full of shit.
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Post by quaco on Nov 19, 2019 4:32:37 GMT
With Patti's song, it isn't just the word that offends, but the idea of equating the shit a misunderstood artist has to put up with with the shit that black people have had to put up with. I don't personally know any black people who would concede her point. Beyond that, she seems to be embracing Lenny Bruce's idea that if we wear such epithets proudly or even just cavalierly, we can rob them of their power to hurt. A nice idea, but again, I doubt you could find many black people for whom that works in real life. This. I don't think she has bad intentions, but I think her notion is based on a false premise - artists can certainly suggest interpretations, but they can't rewrite language - only society as a whole can do that. It's a social contract in which maybe writers have a bigger stake/more power, but it's arrogant to think that it wholly or primarily determines it. I love her to death, but in this particular case, she's full of shit. As a side comment, I would say that Lennon/Ono's use of it was perfectly justified. The shit women have to deal with is at least equivalent to what black people have to deal with. The eternal -- and original -- target of man's viciousness.
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Post by npht on Nov 19, 2019 22:18:25 GMT
This. I don't think she has bad intentions, but I think her notion is based on a false premise - artists can certainly suggest interpretations, but they can't rewrite language - only society as a whole can do that. It's a social contract in which maybe writers have a bigger stake/more power, but it's arrogant to think that it wholly or primarily determines it. I love her to death, but in this particular case, she's full of shit. As a side comment, I would say that Lennon/Ono's use of it was perfectly justified. The shit women have to deal with is at least equivalent to what black people have to deal with. The eternal -- and original -- target of man's viciousness. Agree with all these comments.
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