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Post by oh oooh on Aug 24, 2021 14:16:47 GMT
It's a simplification but it makes sense to me. Why don't we hear mother-in-law jokes or hear 'Paki' these days? The root of it all is being nice to people. Being super-sensitive in some cases, perhaps I still hear jokes about nationalities all the time. The reason why "paki" became taboo was because Asian people were victims of various forms of racism and such an expression was seen as enabling that racism because of its derogatory nature. So in-built into all of this is an understanding of power dynamics within society. "Be nice to everyone" doesn't recognise that last point and hence is an immediately unhelpful starting point. But you'd agree that showing everybody respect is a good starting point?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 14:19:21 GMT
I still hear jokes about nationalities all the time. The reason why "paki" became taboo was because Asian people were victims of various forms of racism and such an expression was seen as enabling that racism because of its derogatory nature. So in-built into all of this is an understanding of power dynamics within society. "Be nice to everyone" doesn't recognise that last point and hence is an immediately unhelpful starting point. But you'd agree that showing everybody respect is a good starting point? Of course, but do you see my point that his summary isn't just a simplification but a misunderstanding?
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Post by oh oooh on Aug 24, 2021 14:21:13 GMT
Not in that specific example, no. He may have gone on to dig himself a hole, but I don't see what you object to in the fundamental idea.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 14:26:01 GMT
Not in that specific example, no. He may have gone on to dig himself a hole, but I don't see what you object to in the fundamental idea. I'm surprised you're not getting my point. Let me try again ..if it was simply a matter of "be nice to everyone", then 'Jock' would be as taboo as 'Paki'. That's clearly not the case, now try and think why that might be?
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Post by oh oooh on Aug 24, 2021 14:28:05 GMT
Not in that specific example, no. He may have gone on to dig himself a hole, but I don't see what you object to in the fundamental idea. I'm surprised you're not getting my point. Let me try again ..if it was simply a matter of "be nice to everyone", then 'Jock' would be as taboo as 'Paki'. That makes no sense at all.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Aug 24, 2021 14:29:27 GMT
Personally, I find the rainbow/diversity agenda being chucked at me by society, advertisers and general culture to be loathsome, mostly because it's being manufactured, peddled and forced at me. I think that most people instinctively know it's fake as fuck. I don't have any issue with the message that it's carrying, but it's the manner in which it is being pushed that almost angers me. And I think that it is trying to suppress the somewhat guttural, satirical culture that we have built over the centuries. When I joined the Telegraph, Bron Waugh was on his last legs at the paper. I remember reading him for the first time and almost being shocked by the venom of his writing - he really did dislike a lot of people and made no bones about it. After a while though, I came to like his scabrous prose because, simply, it was very enjoyable to read. There is something quite amusing about horrendous take-downs, because it is, ultimately, human. If we lived in a world where we all had to be nice to each other, it would be unfailingly dreadful. People love to hate, especially us Brits. People get irritated to fuck by small things all the time. People can scream at some hapless bozo in a car or wish death on their line manager or scream at some idiot on Love Island. It's normal, it's natural. Comedy gives a medium for this. It's a release valve and it enables us to express this aspect of our personalities and find humour and absurdity in it and in doing so bring us closer together. That moment of recognition when someone expresses as much rage over some trivial thing that fucking boils your piss too! We need these things but we are repressing them in comedy at least (maybe all that frustration is being unloaded on Twitter lol) The whole rainbow/diversity thing boils my piss cos its bullshit and fake as fuck but also because it's creepy and possesses a kind of pseudo religious Ned Flanders style faux niceness that is symptomatic of something rather gross in our society. The other day a mate and I were heading down to Yorkshire on the motorway and we passed a fucking rainbow train and we just laughed out loud at the childish stupidity of all this shit. Its like we live in Toy Town or summat. It reminds me of children's TV shows or, maybe more accurately, those religious American TV cable channels were people are sat around in a circle singing about bleeding Jesus whilst banging on a tambourine. And the thing is, you just know at least half the cunts singing probably cheat on their partners. It's the yanks man. Pushing their shit onto us. Terrible scene.
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Post by tory on Aug 24, 2021 14:31:42 GMT
They are semantically exactly the same thing.
"Be nice to everyone" makes me feel sick by the way. It's as fake as hippies with "peace and love". Fuck off.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 14:38:15 GMT
Going back to the show for a minute, it will be interesting to see which comedians that are in full support of cancel culture will be on it. I have a feeling if there are any, it's gonna be some young comedians starting out.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 14:38:37 GMT
I'm surprised you're not getting my point. Let me try again ..if it was simply a matter of "be nice to everyone", then 'Jock' would be as taboo as 'Paki'. That makes no sense at all. Well one would be seen as racist and therefore taboo, the other might be seen as mildly insulting but doesn't carry the same charged baggage. You see that right? The point is political correctness is NOT just saying 'be nice to everyone' because not everyone faces the same discrimination or history of persecution, so there is an expressedly political dimension to this that needs to be understand. Is that clearer?
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Post by oh oooh on Aug 24, 2021 14:42:49 GMT
I see what you're saying but that doesn't contradict my main point. There are disparate groups which have faced differing levels of historic abuse but what Cleese said was reasonable AS A STARTING POINT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 14:43:45 GMT
..Never mind.
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Post by oh oooh on Aug 24, 2021 14:45:28 GMT
You're looking for flaws in what you assume (probably correctly) to be Cleese's thinking.
I get that 'be nice to people' is a trite expression but I can't really fault it as a way to go about your life. Can you?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 14:51:20 GMT
I see what you're saying but that doesn't contradict my main point. There are disparate groups which have faced differing levels of historic abuse but what Cleese said was reasonable AS A STARTING POINTIt's completely inaccurate and misrepresentative as a definition of how 'political correction' started. People didn't just wake up and say 'Oooh I think we all should be nicer to each other'. The targets of early political correctness were specifically to do with racism and sexism, hence comedians like Jim Davidson and Bernard Manning disappearing from our screens by the late eighties.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Aug 24, 2021 14:53:53 GMT
Not in that specific example, no. He may have gone on to dig himself a hole, but I don't see what you object to in the fundamental idea. I'm surprised you're not getting my point. Let me try again ..if it was simply a matter of "be nice to everyone", then 'Jock' would be as taboo as 'Paki'. That's clearly not the case, now try and think why that might be? I’ll never forget the time you called me a sweaty sock G. Sadowitz used Paki both times I saw him but then that’s Sadowitz
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 14:57:11 GMT
You're looking for flaws in what you assume (probably correctly) to be Cleese's thinking. I get that 'be nice to people' is a trite expression but I can't really fault it as a way to go about your life. Can you? I don't know if you're deliberately missing my point here, it would seem so..so I'll put it in the bluntest terms possible: I am NOT saying 'be nice to people' is a bad thing to say or way to live your life, I AM saying it is a pretty CRAP definition of political correctness.
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