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racism
Jul 16, 2019 19:16:55 GMT
Post by Reasonable good Nick on Jul 16, 2019 19:16:55 GMT
He makes a fair point about power dynamics in racism, but his claim that European scientists 'invented' racism in the 17th century seems bizarre. Racist slaveocracies and institutionally racist states long predated that time, some by millenia. And some of those racist polities throughout history were implemented and ruled over by what we would now call people of colour, as some racist systems still are. If you want to see systemic racism that's far worse than what you'd see in Europe or the USA, go to pretty much any country in the Gulf region.
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Post by Reasonable good Nick on Jul 16, 2019 19:18:28 GMT
it's hard to live in America right now and not have very strong feelings about this word. since this weekend, many commentators and news outlets are using this word to describe President Trump - some for the very first time. you either think it's the right word or you don't. I most certainly do. I agree, I think there's no doubt that it's the right word. Maybe this is a turning point. I hope so.
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racism
Jul 16, 2019 20:47:44 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 20:47:44 GMT
it's hard to live in America right now and not have very strong feelings about this word. since this weekend, many commentators and news outlets are using this word to describe President Trump - some for the very first time. you either think it's the right word or you don't. I most certainly do. He and his dad sued for unfair housing practices. Birther movement. Rapists and criminals, referring to Mexican immigrants. Shithole countries. And those are only off the top of my head. Yeah, he's racist as fuck.
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racism
Jul 17, 2019 9:11:40 GMT
Post by Reasonable good Nick on Jul 17, 2019 9:11:40 GMT
He makes a fair point about power dynamics in racism, but his claim that European scientists 'invented' racism in the 17th century seems bizarre. Racist slaveocracies and institutionally racist states long predated that time, some by millenia. And some of those racist polities throughout history were implemented and ruled over by what we would now call people of colour, as some racist systems still are. If you want to see systemic racism that's far worse than what you'd see in Europe or the USA, go to pretty much any country in the Gulf region. One other thing. It's a little difficult to take too seriously an 18 year old white chap piously and patronisingly writing 'Dear White People' and laying out his own woker-than-thou take on 'racism' when he doesn't seem to have much in the way of historical knowledge or perspective to back it up. It's exactly the sort of thing I might have written when I was 18, and knew very little about anything.
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racism
Jul 17, 2019 18:07:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by daveythefatboy on Jul 17, 2019 18:07:00 GMT
He makes a fair point about power dynamics in racism, but his claim that European scientists 'invented' racism in the 17th century seems bizarre. Racist slaveocracies and institutionally racist states long predated that time, some by millenia. And some of those racist polities throughout history were implemented and ruled over by what we would now call people of colour, as some racist systems still are. If you want to see systemic racism that's far worse than what you'd see in Europe or the USA, go to pretty much any country in the Gulf region. One other thing. It's a little difficult to take too seriously an 18 year old white chap piously and patronisingly writing 'Dear White People' and laying out his own woker-than-thou take on 'racism' when he doesn't seem to have much in the way of historical knowledge or perspective to back it up. It's exactly the sort of thing I might have written when I was 18, and knew very little about anything. Respectfully - it seems like you are engaging in a kind of willful point-missing here. The fact that our modern brand of racism has a pretty deep pre-history is a fair-enough point. But invoking that (and using a bullshit phrase like ‘“worker-than-thou”) to deflect from his larger (and largely correct) point that our dictionary definition ignores the existing racial hierarchies of our time seems like a hell of a dodge.
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racism
Jul 17, 2019 18:21:52 GMT
Post by Sneelock on Jul 17, 2019 18:21:52 GMT
I've actually heard people say this; "TRUMP's not the Racist - YOU'RE the Racist!" & I've heard it more than once. no explanation why the offending party is racist only that TRUMP isn't and they are.
it doesn't make any sense and that doesn't seem to bother them in the least.
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racism
Jul 17, 2019 18:25:36 GMT
Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 17, 2019 18:25:36 GMT
I've actually heard people say this; "TRUMP's not the Racist - YOU'RE the Racist!" & I've heard it more than once. no explanation why the offending party is racist only that TRUMP isn't and they are. it doesn't make any sense and that doesn't seem to bother them in the least. People are fond of digging holes these days and they're getting deeper than deeper. Some folks can never just admit they might be wrong about something, especially when it's politics. So the increasingly torturous excuses become even more risible as the hole gets deeper. I mean you could throw down a rope ladder but some folks are so entrenched they'd simply throw it back up. We went through the looking glass a long time ago.
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racism
Jul 17, 2019 18:49:58 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 18:49:58 GMT
We should leave all that "check your privilege" nonsense to the Americans. They love all that stuff.
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racism
Jul 17, 2019 19:25:04 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 19:25:04 GMT
Anyway the article is pretty flawed. For one thing the author's definition of racism can't be legally applied unless you really believe you can have laws apply differently to people depending on their ethnicity. Secondly it's narrow definition of power and white privilege rather ignores the fact that often racism can be a problem and a product of economic and social marginalisation (people blaming poor housing or job losses on immigration for example). Some of the analysis is sound, but it's conclusions could be harmful in their divisiveness.
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racism
Jul 17, 2019 19:42:56 GMT
Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 17, 2019 19:42:56 GMT
We should leave all that "check your privilege" nonsense to the Americans. They love all that stuff. Says the WHITE CIS GENDER HETEROSEXUAL MAN
I know people who genuinely say that sorta stuff. I find myself having to bite my lip more and more these days.
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racism
Jul 17, 2019 19:53:06 GMT
Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 17, 2019 19:53:06 GMT
If we look at the word, ‘racism’, we see that it is made up of ‘race’ and the suffix ‘-ism’. This suffix is used to denote a system which, at least in the western world, is a system of white supremacy.
This clearly differentiates racism from prejudice. Anyone can be prejudiced toward anyone else, regardless of their race. People of color can certainly be prejudiced toward white people. However it is not racism because there is no larger system in place which oppresses white people.
Am I right in saying this definition of racism came about in the 70s on the left? I seem to recall reading something in the dim and distant past.
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racism
Jul 17, 2019 19:59:29 GMT
Post by Half Machine Lipschitz on Jul 17, 2019 19:59:29 GMT
I'm an artist.
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racism
Jul 17, 2019 20:06:23 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 20:06:23 GMT
If we look at the word, ‘racism’, we see that it is made up of ‘race’ and the suffix ‘-ism’. This suffix is used to denote a system which, at least in the western world, is a system of white supremacy.
This clearly differentiates racism from prejudice. Anyone can be prejudiced toward anyone else, regardless of their race. People of color can certainly be prejudiced toward white people. However it is not racism because there is no larger system in place which oppresses white people.Am I right in saying this definition of racism came about in the 70s on the left? I seem to recall reading something in the dim and distant past. Well I doubt it would've come from the right. I had an argument with Oscar and Griff about it years back.
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racism
Jul 17, 2019 20:12:21 GMT
Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 17, 2019 20:12:21 GMT
If we look at the word, ‘racism’, we see that it is made up of ‘race’ and the suffix ‘-ism’. This suffix is used to denote a system which, at least in the western world, is a system of white supremacy.
This clearly differentiates racism from prejudice. Anyone can be prejudiced toward anyone else, regardless of their race. People of color can certainly be prejudiced toward white people. However it is not racism because there is no larger system in place which oppresses white people.Am I right in saying this definition of racism came about in the 70s on the left? I seem to recall reading something in the dim and distant past. Well I doubt it would've come from the right. I had an argument with Oscar and Griff about it years back. I kinda meant more on the far left. But yeah. I can see Griff totally saying that lol
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rayge
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racism
Jul 18, 2019 8:06:49 GMT
Post by rayge on Jul 18, 2019 8:06:49 GMT
If we look at the word, ‘racism’, we see that it is made up of ‘race’ and the suffix ‘-ism’. This suffix is used to denote a system which, at least in the western world, is a system of white supremacy.
This clearly differentiates racism from prejudice. Anyone can be prejudiced toward anyone else, regardless of their race. People of color can certainly be prejudiced toward white people. However it is not racism because there is no larger system in place which oppresses white people.Am I right in saying this definition of racism came about in the 70s on the left? I seem to recall reading something in the dim and distant past. FWIW, this is what was understood in the 1960s and early 1970s when I was writing my thesis on black writers in the USA. Racism was essentially different from prejudice, stereotyping and so on, because it was backed up by systemic oppression. Which is why I wrote
way back on page one.
Please note that this is a linguistic point, no more.
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