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Post by tory on Dec 16, 2019 21:28:17 GMT
BAKLAVA ACTUALLY
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 21:52:19 GMT
I'd argue that the main thing that shifted the vote in the traditional labour strongholds was the possibility of real change. I don't think people believe political parties of either persuasion, and there's very little evidence that in these neglected parts of the country that it was the possibility of free broadband that was the main driver for a huge swing to the tories. Whether the economy has been booming, or whether we've had austerity, very little changes for the people of communities which have seen no investment, and no interest from Westminster. They still know that the Tories aren't interested in them. But they know that Brexit will bring a very real shock to the system, and they're just hoping that shock rebalances the economy to include them, just as the shock of Thatcherism excluded them. The fear that the economy will suffer doesn't hit home, because their economy always suffers. They ain't worrying about GDP. You say the Tories aren't interested in them and, yet, they listened to them on Brexit. They promised to cut immigration and end freedom of movement so they are listening to them there too. These are big issues and the Tories are doing something about it. This is partly why they won. Because in some pretty fundamental ways they are interested in them. Interested in them? Brexit wasn't more popular than Remain or second referendum. The only difference was the remain/second referendum vote was split between three or sometimes four parties, whereas the Brexit vote was carried solely by the Tories. Had the Brexit vote been split and the Remain vote unified, we'd have had a quite different outcome.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Dec 16, 2019 22:24:09 GMT
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Post by fonz on Dec 17, 2019 6:17:08 GMT
You say the Tories aren't interested in them and, yet, they listened to them on Brexit. They promised to cut immigration and end freedom of movement so they are listening to them there too. These are big issues and the Tories are doing something about it. This is partly why they won. Because in some pretty fundamental ways they are interested in them. Interested in them? Brexit wasn't more popular than Remain or second referendum. The only difference was the remain/second referendum vote was split between three or sometimes four parties, whereas the Brexit vote was carried solely by the Tories. Had the Brexit vote been split and the Remain vote unified, we'd have had a quite different outcome.
Not strictly true, G. Halifax’s Brexit party candidate took about 3000 votes. Had those voters voted Tory, Halifax would now have a Con MP for the first time in decades. There may be other examples, but that’s my home town.
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Post by tory on Dec 17, 2019 6:44:01 GMT
A centre left government was in power for thirteen years in the UK! Absolute cock. A coherent centrist party that understood the need for Brexit would have won the election.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 17, 2019 6:52:17 GMT
The spirit of Copey and Deebank lives on
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 17, 2019 7:01:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 9:55:21 GMT
Interested in them? Brexit wasn't more popular than Remain or second referendum. The only difference was the remain/second referendum vote was split between three or sometimes four parties, whereas the Brexit vote was carried solely by the Tories. Had the Brexit vote been split and the Remain vote unified, we'd have had a quite different outcome.
Not strictly true, G. Halifax’s Brexit party candidate took about 3000 votes. Had those voters voted Tory, Halifax would now have a Con MP for the first time in decades. There may be other examples, but that’s my home town. Not if you also add the Lib Dem and Green votes to Labour they wouldn't have done.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 9:57:02 GMT
A centre left government was in power for thirteen years in the UK! Absolute cock. A coherent centrist party that understood the need for Brexit would have won the election. 1. They weren't centre-left. 2. They had the support of News International.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 10:34:25 GMT
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 17, 2019 14:15:07 GMT
The media thing is oversold, partly because it's an easy excuse and one that absolves the left of its share of the blame. One of the most frustrating things about the left is that rarely looks in the mirror, it has so little self-awareness and understanding as to how others perceive them, but then why would you when you are so utterly convinced of your own moral and intellectual certitude? You need doubt for that and empathy. The problem is not US – how can it be – it’s THEM, always THEM. This is so deeply ingrained on the left and it always gets in the way because when you're searching for reasons why you lost so heavily you can’t seem to countenance that the problem might actually lie on the left itself to a significant extent. Instead you blame everybody else as a reflexive way of protecting yourself: the beeb, the mainstream media, the Israeli lobby, Centrists, Murdoch etc as you weave your conspiratorial webs to explain once again why the masses have brutally rejected your worldview.
Crucially, and you can't really overstate this, you also believe the masses are basically thick, prejudiced twats who have been brainwashed by the right wing media and are therefore living with a false consciousness n shit (of course all these dogmatic socialists somehow believe they are the ones who are “awake” which is fucking hilarious but there you go). It’s understandable that some left wingers therefore struggle to understand exactly why they lose. The poor bastards have a lot getting in the way. It’s the same shit every time though, that’s the thing! It would be funny (it still is) if it weren’t so fucking tragic.
Newsflash, it wasn't just Brexit. Some points....
Britain isn’t a socialist country. Sorry about that. Labour needs to deal with this reality and tailor policies accordingly instead of trying push some agenda that only appeals to a minority. No socialist fuckbox should be allowed anywhere near the top job as a consequence. You’ve had your chance (again) and the British Public, in their common sense and their sense of basic human decency, resoundingly said "fuck off". You don’t get to fuck it up for every other cunt another time. Contempt and ridicule is all they shall receive from now on and it’s richly deserved.
The working classes despised Corbyn and Corbynism. They don’t like people who are biased against this country for some strange reason (contrary fuckers), amongst other things. They don’t like people who have supported the IRA. They don’t like their potential leaders querying British intelligence and siding with Putin right after Russia attempted to murder people on our fucking streets. They dislike cunts who call Islamist nutters like Hamas “friends” who are into “social justice”. Of course little of this shit seemed to bother some left wingers who quite happily overlooked all this with a wave of their dismissive hands (some of course actually have supported these cunts) but the public didn’t. FUNNY THAT. At a very basic level, Corbyn and his pathetic worldview was repulsive to working class people who are not only proud of their communities and towns but their country too and don’t take kindly to revolutionary fools like Corbyn.
The anti-Semitism issue stunk. Of course it did. To those out there who don’t labour (fnar) under the delusion that it was all a right wing smear Labour looked like a shower of cunts. The left enabled this. Own it.
Economically there weren’t credible. People aren’t thick. They know shit needs to be paid for and they knew that it would be them funding it. Nationalise fucking everything did not work despite there being public support for at least some nationalisation of key services. All the state handouts didn’t work despite years of austerity either. People weren’t buying it. There was something very patronising about it all. People want the opportunity to create their own wealth through education, jobs and opportunities, not freebies handed out to them by a desperate politicians on the make.
All this whining about the media is a diversion from yourselves ultimately. From the fact that what you supported what was the political equivalent of placing a steaming hot dog tod under the nose of the British electorate. Until you accept that and ask yourselves some serious questions you will never learn.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 15:03:14 GMT
You do swear a lot.
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Post by tory on Dec 17, 2019 15:04:41 GMT
The Gammon meme I think was indicative of it all.
"Let's parody middle aged white working class men because they are stupid racists and then wonder why all those people then voted for the Tories."
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Post by tory on Dec 17, 2019 15:07:35 GMT
The thing about the media is that realistically you cant do anything about it. It's called freedom of speech.
Plus the reality is that the BBC and Ch4 are broadly liblab in their programming whilst the print media are broadly right wing with exceptions. There is no sustained right wing TV presence in the UK. Even Sky is pretty liberal.
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Dec 17, 2019 16:17:04 GMT
Hey lads, election's over and we all voted already. What say we lock this thread and you either open some new threads about politics, if you must talk about it, or go back to posting about things that don't inspire pages of tedious impotent rancour. Politics is over for five years or so, there's nothing you can do about it, it only upsets you. Which of course is what THEY want.
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