|
Post by Reactionary Rage on Nov 13, 2019 8:45:56 GMT
|
|
|
Post by tory on Nov 13, 2019 9:26:00 GMT
I do worry that he is going to get in too, probably as leader of a minority Labour government that would then have to make some arrangement with the SNP to get power, or with the Lib Dems, who will sell their own grandmothers for a shot at power.
The man's worldview is fundamentally flawed. Nice constituency MP and that's it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 9:26:15 GMT
He's 5'9. I wouldn't say that's particularly little.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 9:27:25 GMT
And I worry that Johnson is going to get back in.
|
|
|
Post by tory on Nov 13, 2019 9:46:28 GMT
I can understand that.
I do believe though that Johnson has a better, more nuanced view of Britain's place in the world than Corbyn. And at a moment when we do have to grasp a sense of where we stand post Brexit, he understands the necessity of a pragmatic approach in this instance, rather than barking solidarity comments with regimes and countries that we have little in common with.
I also feel that Corbyn has no real understanding of how important Israel is as a beacon of consensual, democratic government in a sea of autocracy where the Rule of Law seems to be worryingly non-existent.
|
|
|
Post by Reactionary Rage on Nov 13, 2019 9:57:58 GMT
I do worry that he is going to get in too, probably as leader of a minority Labour government that would then have to make some arrangement with the SNP to get power, or with the Lib Dems, who will sell their own grandmothers for a shot at power. The man's worldview is fundamentally flawed. Nice constituency MP and that's it.
My concern is that Labour would make a pact with the SNP and the price of that would obviously be a 2nd independence referendum. If that happens then we could be looking at the break up on the union. I think it is that serious sadly although having a non-Tory government might placate some of the nationalists.
It's just such a mess these days.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 10:04:24 GMT
I can understand that. I do believe though that Johnson has a better, more nuanced view of Britain's place in the world than Corbyn. I don't. An innocent woman is languishing in a foreign jail because of him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 10:05:58 GMT
I also feel that Corbyn has no real understanding of how important Israel is as a beacon of consensual, democratic government in a sea of autocracy where the Rule of Law seems to be worryingly non-existent. Oh please..Israel has broken international law time and time again.
|
|
|
Post by Crunchy Col on Nov 13, 2019 10:06:25 GMT
But we have Israel, the democratic beacon!
|
|
|
Post by Crunchy Col on Nov 13, 2019 10:07:09 GMT
(beat me to it, G)
|
|
|
Post by tory on Nov 13, 2019 10:39:19 GMT
Israel is a successful country that has managed to install a thriving economy and a democracy in a region of the world where there is simply no tradition of it.
Would you rather have that, than being attacked by the countries surrounding it, which is what they have done since 1948?
Iran in particular has made no secret of their wish to see Israel destroyed.
If we believe in liberal democracy, which we all do fundamentally, then Israel, however imperfect it is, is a much better alternative than Assad style autocracy.
|
|
|
Post by tory on Nov 13, 2019 10:43:03 GMT
I'm afraid that whilst there are legitimate Palestinian grievances, any nascent Palestinian state would simply become a proxy of Iran, pure and simple.
It is a fine idea to give Palestinians their independence, but the political realities are far too dangerous for it to happen.
And would people who rail against religious conservatism want another country that would simply promote a theocratic agenda in the Middle East?
|
|
|
Post by Reactionary Rage on Nov 13, 2019 11:08:24 GMT
You would have an Islamist theocracy with everything that entails for the region. One that not only wants to murder Jews and wipe Israel off the map but one that isn’t keen on Muslims who don’t fit their criteria of what a Muslim should be either.
|
|
|
Post by tory on Nov 13, 2019 11:19:47 GMT
It's the paucity of intellectual thought on the left that I despair of.
They automatically join any sort of independence movement, because hey, those people are being oppressed, they're out on the streets waving flags being fought by riot police who represent the MAN.
Catalonia is a great example. The Catalans have some good reasons for independence, but they have never been independent. There has never been a Catalonia as an independent country. But hey, Barcelona is a popular, vibrant city that we've all been to, so when we see them peacefully protesting, we warm to them because it is seen as their right naturally to do so.
If Catalonia seceded, then what about Galicia, Andalusia etc? Spain is a flimsy construct in so many ways, held together by an autocratic regime in Franco that then managed to become economically prosperous enough to allow the constitutional monarchy to come back in the seventies. Europe is full of these places, full of places that want independence, many of them for far-fetched reasons. The reality on the ground is always far more complex.
|
|
|
Post by Reactionary Rage on Nov 13, 2019 11:29:44 GMT
There’s a strong undercurrent of “we make more money than you do and we want it spent only on US!” to the whole Catalan independence thing. If they did leave what would be the economic impact on the poorer parts of Spain? There’s an I’m alright Jack, fuck you element you know?
Of course when it all kicked off you saw Scottish nationalists waving their Catalan flags because “independence”, freedom or some shit.
|
|