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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Dec 12, 2019 17:10:50 GMT
I'm sure I've started threads about this subject before, but it's just that there's SO much to say!
I'm on a train right now, hoping to get back to Whitehaven this evening in time to vote. A man just got on with a dog as big as a human being. Nobody's saying anything but it's causing some difficulties as it's taking up the whole aisle and people are constantly moving backwards and forwards with bags.
Last weekend my train from Edinburgh to Carlisle was CANCELLED. Nobody tells you what to do, it's just there on the display at the station: CANCELLED. Eventually we got shovelled onto a coach and the fucking thing took over three hours, stopped everyfuckingwhere. And the coach was overheated, and I was squashed between the window and a gin-chugging office lassie and her squawking mates.
We have quite probably the worst trains in Europe when you think about cost, punctuality and comfort. Is nationalisation the answer? SOMETHING has to be done!
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Dec 12, 2019 18:02:16 GMT
We have quite probably the worst trains in Europe when you think about cost, punctuality and comfort. Is nationalisation the answer? SOMETHING has to be done! I can't answer for the rest of Europe, but in the UK the answer is to improve the infrastructure and rolling stock and bring down fares, and that isn't going to happen when they are in private hands. Yes to nationalisation. I'd also like to see Richard Branson hanged, if that could be arranged.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 12, 2019 18:24:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 19:08:08 GMT
I used to be the associate marketing manager for the commuter rail line for San Francisco to San Jose.
I looked up the price of a British rail trip of comparative length for a Bay Area regional line for a normal commute.
British rail seems to be pretty expensive in comparison. Which seems to be stated in the link Goat Boy provided. Can't imagine paying that every day.
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Post by tory on Dec 12, 2019 20:53:08 GMT
The issue Britain faces, particularly in the South East, is that the ripping up of infrastructure to start "afresh" is almost impossible. For example, countries like Germany have double-decker suburban trains. This would solve congestion issues immediately. But they can't, because there are too many bridges, some of which are very long. The demolition of bridges only adds to congestion issues for traffic, would have a massive impact on housing etc.
Britain had the first ever railway and that in itself created problems that it is very difficult to solve. We are the 5th most densely populated country in the world, with settlement of some sort pretty much in most places. Laying new track to help solve congestion is very very expensive and takes a long time to complete. It is simply not possible to start afresh or build some huge new hi-speed track without significant compensation to landowners and even then it would be bogged down in legalities for decades as it already is.
Countries like Spain, Germany and France do not have these issues. Spain can run a hugely subsidised railway service because it is simply not inhabited in the same way that Britain is.
Do you want to hold onto our marvellous countryside or do you want an ever-increasing sprawl?
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Post by Cousin Lou on Dec 13, 2019 8:33:26 GMT
The issue Britain faces, particularly in the South East, is that the ripping up of infrastructure to start "afresh" is almost impossible. For example, countries like Germany have double-decker suburban trains. This would solve congestion issues immediately. But they can't, because there are too many bridges, some of which are very long. The demolition of bridges only adds to congestion issues for traffic, would have a massive impact on housing etc. Britain had the first ever railway and that in itself created problems that it is very difficult to solve. We are the 5th most densely populated country in the world, with settlement of some sort pretty much in most places. Laying new track to help solve congestion is very very expensive and takes a long time to complete. It is simply not possible to start afresh or build some huge new hi-speed track without significant compensation to landowners and even then it would be bogged down in legalities for decades as it already is. Countries like Spain, Germany and France do not have these issues. Spain can run a hugely subsidised railway service because it is simply not inhabited in the same way that Britain is. Do you want to hold onto our marvellous countryside or do you want an ever-increasing sprawl? So they shouldn't do it then?
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Dec 13, 2019 9:53:53 GMT
You'd have to stop trains running, at least in large parts of the country, for several months at least in order to do this. It's just impossible. T's right.
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fonz
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Post by fonz on Dec 13, 2019 11:19:02 GMT
Underground trains.
It works in London, Paris etc
Why not Dorset and Cornwall?
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Dec 13, 2019 11:21:18 GMT
The track needs replacing.
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Post by DarknessFish on Dec 13, 2019 11:39:09 GMT
They did stop trains running for months. It's called "Northern Rail".
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Post by Cousin Lou on Dec 17, 2019 9:08:00 GMT
You'd have to stop trains running, at least in large parts of the country, for several months at least in order to do this. It's just impossible. T's right. It is not impossible. How do you reckon other countries cope with this? How do you think cities like Amsterdam & Rotterdam are able to renew and expand overground and underground train nets and include fast trains tracks?
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Dec 17, 2019 9:56:22 GMT
We've got the oldest train network in Europe. I'm not an expert but there are different gauges and just to change a small section of track is a major job.
Although I think nationalisation will bring its own set of problems, it still makes sense because a) a national rail network is a natural monopoly, and b) state investment in the rails makes sense because it's a basic public service (and any gov't committed to carbon reduction needs to reduce reliance on cars).
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Post by Cousin Lou on Dec 17, 2019 11:23:44 GMT
We've got the oldest train network in Europe. I'm not an expert but there are different gauges and just to change a small section of track is a major job. Although I think nationalisation will bring its own set of problems, it still makes sense because a) a national rail network is a natural monopoly, and b) state investment in the rails makes sense because it's a basic public service (and any gov't committed to carbon reduction needs to reduce reliance on cars). And I am no expert either but we both can see that other major cities with old infrastructures pull it off. And they must. It needs to be done and any time wasted deciding on the best course of action makes the problem only bigger and will involve even more investment and more headaches. There's been a time when England was the frontrunner in modern development, hence the first train network. Similar to that they were one of the first that had street lights - that operated on gas. By the time other countries installed street lights, electricity was used. Sometimes you can be too soon - the law of the inhibiting lead. Anyway, leaving it as it is is just no option. On the plus side, just look at how many jobs such an infrastructural project will create.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Dec 17, 2019 11:26:46 GMT
Well, yeah.
I don't know. We've probably gone too far down the privatisation road, there are too many firms and too many employees involved in the running of the whole network now to turn back.
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Post by Cousin Lou on Dec 17, 2019 11:33:30 GMT
Well, yeah. I don't know. We've probably gone too far down the privatisation road, there are too many firms and too many employees involved in the running of the whole network now to turn back. A lot of countries have semi privatised train networks in which the state has a controlling interest. the result is a company that's run better than what a government would accomplish and the stake ensures things like ticket price control and trains running on non- profitable trajects too.
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