As we say adieu to the EU

[Reactionary Rage]

It’s over, it’s been decided, we need to move on and make the best of it.

I see no point in whining or indulging in “we told you so”

[Reactionary Rage]

Jan 26, 2020 14:40:12 GMT Mr. FOLLARD said:

Jan 26, 2020 14:10:46 GMT tory said:

A few months ago I was in a second-hand bookshop and got chatting to a French woman about Brexit. She was fairly philosophical about the whole thing and said two things that stood out. Firstly, that if France had a referendum, it would leave without any doubt. Secondly, that "Britain does not want to be the same as everyone else". There is something in that - the distinctiveness of what makes us Britain. It is a bit absurd, a bit eccentric, a bit rolling cheese down hills, a bit of unusual place names, imperial measurements and accents and bloody bollocks and more and more of it piddle widdle

And don't you think other countries in the EU see THEMSELVES as special?

Are we the only ones who want to hold on to our 'quaint' little 'eccentricities'?

I can guarantee there's a couple in Lodz right now saying 'nowhere else in Europe do they have such a RANGE of SMOKED MEATS!'. And somewhere in Lisbon old fellas'll be talking about the unique Portuguese desire to travel the seas. With custard tarts.


And I'm sick of hearing this smug bullshit you get from Brexiteers about 'respecting the democratic will'. HALF of voters wanted to stay - probably more, now. What about them?

For all the talk about 'Remoaners' it's surprising we haven't seen MORE in the way of resistance - street protests and the likes. I'm pretty sure that would be the case if 'Remain' had won.

We’re also an island. I think Toby hits on part of the problem here and that’s a bunch of largely educated types like this idea of the EU and some kind of multicultural global village where everybody lives in perfect harmony together but there is a larger group of people who aren’t convinced at all and they are pushing back against this vision

[tory]

One of the more peculiar aspects of the whole Brexit farrago was that it did NOT spill out into anything more violent. That in itself tells you something. Culturally, whilst there is a pugilistic animus about us as individuals that manifests itself in Spain, football terraces and nights out, collectively it is much harder to gauge when it does so. As a whole we managed to synthesize the whole thing through politics and democracy without the need for violence. In many respects I think that tell us something about how important democracy is as a system to govern. And one of the things that was really pertinent about Brexit has been the fact that for many of us, it is really the first time we've witnessed something being tested - i.e a system, a notion etc. And in many ways, it was a testament to the system upholding the fact that many people thought Democracy was being subverted by the left-leaning establishment, which is why Boris won so handsomely. Remainers may not like it, but it is what it is.

That article I posted above pointed out that 300 people were killed in Paris by the French in 1961! That is a staggering figure and an event I'd known nothing about. That's nearly as many people as the Gordon Riots in 1780. France likes violence - witness the Gilet Jaunes.

[tory]

Jan 26, 2020 14:40:12 GMT Mr. FOLLARD said:

And I'm sick of hearing this smug bullshit you get from Brexiteers about 'respecting the democratic will'. HALF of voters wanted to stay - probably more, now. What about them?

For all the talk about 'Remoaners' it's surprising we haven't seen MORE in the way of resistance - street protests and the likes. I'm pretty sure that would be the case if 'Remain' had won.

There's no real point going over this, but the 2016 referendum was the largest political vote ever in the UK. 17.5 million people voted to Leave.

The percentage of 52/48 was wider than most US Presidential elections since 1992. I don't see anyone in the US saying that Mitt Romney should have a chance of being President.

To overturn this vote WOULD have led to violence if the referendum vote had not been respected.

[Mr. FOLLARD]

Jan 26, 2020 15:05:14 GMT tory said:

One of the more peculiar aspects of the whole Brexit farrago was that it did NOT spill out into anything more violent. That in itself tells you something. Culturally, whilst there is a pugilistic animus about us as individuals that manifests itself in Spain, football terraces and nights out, collectively it is much harder to gauge when it does so. As a whole we managed to synthesize the whole thing through politics and democracy without the need for violence. 

the thuggish street fighting types are the ones who voted to leave anyway so they've no reason to go out and kick off

[Deleted]

www.itv.com/news/2020-01-26/anti-semitic-and-racist-graffiti-daubed-on-bank-and-takeaway-on-eve-of-holocaust-memorial-day/

[tory]

Appalling.

But...

In 2017 the Institute for Jewish Policy Research conducted what it called "the largest and most detailed survey of attitudes towards Jews and Israel ever conducted in Great Britain." The survey found that the levels of antisemitism in Great Britain were among the lowest in the world, with 2.4% expressing multiple antisemitic attitudes, and about 70% having a favourable opinion of Jews. However, only 17% had a favourable opinion of Israel, with 33% holding an unfavourable view

Again, as a whole Britain really is one of the most tolerant places in the world. Will that change with Brexit? I don't know - maybe. We have, however, had 50-60 years of steady immigration and assimiliation. It is an ongoing project - sometimes it's not so great and sometimes it's better. The whole Islam axiom never existed 40 years ago - and I'd say that it is the first great hurdle to be cleared. It will be another generation until we see the results.

[Deleted]

Jan 26, 2020 14:10:46 GMT tory said:

A few months ago I was in a second-hand bookshop and got chatting to a French woman about Brexit. She was fairly philosophical about the whole thing and said two things that stood out. Firstly, that if France had a referendum, it would leave without any doubt. Secondly, that "Britain does not want to be the same as everyone else". There is something in that - the distinctiveness of what makes us Britain. It is a bit absurd, a bit eccentric, a bit rolling cheese down hills, a bit of unusual place names, imperial measurements and accents. Much of that IS or HAS been lost and it was our identity. Many young people have no idea about that sort of identity, particularly the metropolitan, tech savvy, upwardly mobile lot who jet off around Europe in the summer and only see the positive sides of integration.

The thing is Toby we can have a nostalgia for some imagined Britain all we like but it's not coming back.

The horrible irony in all of this is that Brexit will make us even more vulnerable to the exploitative aspects of globalisation not less. Taking  back control? No, not when you see vital services and infrastructure sold off on the cheap for companies in far off places like China and the USA to make money from. People who voted Brexit are in for a very rude awakening when they discover that services within the NHS are being run by some shadowy company on the other side of the world.

[tory]

Some people are being COMPLETELY MENTAL

[Cousin Lou]

Come on, you have to be really thick to accept all this
and seriously believe you’ll be allright. There’s a recesssion looming
and where are you gonna make up for the lost revenue and who’s gonna pay for food becoming outrageously expensive?

You’re being duped and even the smart think it’ll be allright.

I wonder how long it will take before the general public at large will realise England is just a country and no empire.

[Deleted]

The problem is you can't use threats of economic downturn and job losses as a stick to scare people with in places where structural unemployment and redundancies have just been the reality for decades. Someone above mentioned the Nissan factory in Washington. As a native of Sunderland, this was always really seen as a short term measure to assuage the effect of the city losing its two main industries on which it was built within the same decade of each other -- both as a direct result of political decisions made in London. Remain lost in these places when it fought as the 'as-is' option. I was saying this at the time.

Re political violence -- let's not forget Jo Cox, but the reason why there's been no rioting in the sense that you're getting at is because a large proportion of remainers aren't all that ideologically pro-EU in the abstract. Many made a protest vote against British nationalism, against economic uncertainty or against the kind of brexit that they envisaged. I was in that category. Most remain voters I know are quite ambivalent about it all now. I know at least a couple who would switch to leave in a second referendum as they believe more in democracy than the EU.

[Mr. FOLLARD]

I read something today that suggested the UK's newly-gained independence will give it the opportunity to get its own economy in order without outside interference.

While that may be true in theory, I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in it happening as long as we have this self-serving ballsack as PM.

[Deleted]

Jan 31, 2020 12:55:29 GMT Mr. FOLLARD said:

I read something today that suggested the UK's newly-gained independence will give it the opportunity to get its own economy in order without outside interference.

While that may be true in theory, I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in it happening as long as we have this self-serving ballsack as PM.

Well not only that but we can only really get our economy in order once we've entered into all the trade agreements and that will take years.

[Mr. FOLLARD]

Yes.

So....no good reason for leaving at all, then. Right?

[Cousin Lou]

Jan 31, 2020 13:09:23 GMT @madcyril1 said:

Jan 31, 2020 12:55:29 GMT Mr. FOLLARD said:

I read something today that suggested the UK's newly-gained independence will give it the opportunity to get its own economy in order without outside interference.

While that may be true in theory, I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in it happening as long as we have this self-serving ballsack as PM.

Well not only that but we can only really get our economy in order once we've entered into all the trade agreements and that will take years.

The United Kingom had a trade agreement that most countries around the world would look at with envy. Instead Johnson's eyeing another, smaller market, that's two weeks sailing away instead of around the corner. It still beats me why the brexiteers seem to blame the state the UK's in on the EU. What did the EU do that effectively curbed UK's potential?