|
Post by tory on Jan 30, 2020 13:19:49 GMT
I saw someone post that Brexit was "the fight back in the culture wars".
It has some truth- the Lib-Left has become the cultural orthodoxy in the last 10 years. It started with alternative comedy in the UK back in the 80s, and I guess before that punk too. Those people in punks heyday are now in their sixties and they have become the cultural gatekeepers. The BCB generation really I'd say. It took off with Britpop, Blair and Oasis and then real orthodoxy came with the BBC coverage of Glastonbury and Channel 4 comedy.
Thoughts?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 13:29:18 GMT
I saw someone post that Brexit was "the fight back in the culture wars". It has some truth- the Lib-Left has become the cultural orthodoxy in the last 10 years. It started with alternative comedy in the UK back in the 80s, and I guess before that punk too. Those people in punks heyday are now in their sixties and they have become the cultural gatekeepers. The BCB generation really I'd say. It took off with Britpop, Blair and Oasis and then real orthodoxy came with the BBC coverage of Glastonbury and Channel 4 comedy. Thoughts? I've no idea what the above means, you seem to be mixing up all sorts of stuff. Are you saying Brexit was a rebellion against Britpop?
|
|
|
Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Jan 30, 2020 13:31:23 GMT
Now Scruton's gone he has no-one to get his rabbitings from
|
|
|
Post by tory on Jan 30, 2020 13:40:26 GMT
I'm saying that what was seen as "alternative" back in the 80s and the 90s is now the orthodoxy.
And that Brexit is a fight against that. It's Mrs Browns boys vs Peep Show - popular stuff on ITV against political correctness on BBC1 and C4. You can see it in comedy - there is a growing vein of politically "incorrect" comedy that celebrates Brexit, hates wholeness etc. In order for that to be there, there must be an orthodoxy for it to fight against.
|
|
|
Post by Reactionary Rage on Jan 30, 2020 13:45:01 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 13:45:53 GMT
I'm saying that what was seen as "alternative" back in the 80s and the 90s is now the orthodoxy. And that Brexit is a fight against that. It's Mrs Browns boys vs Peep Show - popular stuff on ITV against political correctness on BBC1 and C4. You can see it in comedy - there is a growing vein of politically "incorrect" comedy that celebrates Brexit, hates wholeness etc. In order for that to be there, there must be an orthodoxy for it to fight against. I think I see what you're saying, there's some truth in it, but I feel the way you've constructed the argument is too sweeping and binary in its oppositional terms. I mean ordinary people watch this stuff too, it's just popular culture.
Was the Brexit vote a desire to return to a more traditional Britain? I think that was a factor among many, particularly with the over 55s.
|
|
|
Post by Reactionary Rage on Jan 30, 2020 13:47:57 GMT
I'm saying that what was seen as "alternative" back in the 80s and the 90s is now the orthodoxy. And that Brexit is a fight against that. It's Mrs Browns boys vs Peep Show - popular stuff on ITV against political correctness on BBC1 and C4. You can see it in comedy - there is a growing vein of politically "incorrect" comedy that celebrates Brexit, hates wholeness etc. In order for that to be there, there must be an orthodoxy for it to fight against. About time. Right on comedy is like an oxymoron to me but it’s less of an issue in the US than over here. The cultural hegemony of the left is pretty deeply ingrained (Hollywood, tech industry, academia) but they are increasingly out of sync with the wider population. The pushback and fall out won’t be pretty but it’s long overdue.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Jan 30, 2020 13:49:50 GMT
So a vote for Brexit was fuelled partly by dissatisfaction with a particular type of 'right-on' media that was becoming acceptable (or even standard)?
|
|
|
Post by Reactionary Rage on Jan 30, 2020 13:52:37 GMT
So a vote for Brexit was fuelled partly by dissatisfaction with a particular type of 'right-on' media that was becoming acceptable (or even standard)? I would say more Trump and Johnson The vid I posted is worth a watch btw
|
|
|
Post by Half Machine Lipschitz on Jan 30, 2020 13:53:03 GMT
So a vote for Brexit was fuelled partly by dissatisfaction with a particular type of 'right-on' media that was becoming acceptable (or even standard)? Pretty much. That and the fact you're not allowed to call brown people "Pakis" any more. Some people hate that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 13:55:42 GMT
I'm saying that what was seen as "alternative" back in the 80s and the 90s is now the orthodoxy. And that Brexit is a fight against that. It's Mrs Browns boys vs Peep Show - popular stuff on ITV against political correctness on BBC1 and C4. You can see it in comedy - there is a growing vein of politically "incorrect" comedy that celebrates Brexit, hates wholeness etc. In order for that to be there, there must be an orthodoxy for it to fight against. About time. Right on comedy is like an oxymoron to me but it’s less of an issue in the US than over here. The cultural hegemony of the left is pretty deeply ingrained (Hollywood, tech industry, academia) but they are increasingly out of sync with the wider population. The pushback and fall out won’t be pretty but it’s long overdue. Like Toby, you can't see the wood for the trees when it comes to this stuff bcause you see everything in such binary terms.
The only thing Mrs Browns Boys is a "victory" for is bad comedy. And bad comedy has always been around and often it's been hugely popular.
|
|
|
Post by Reactionary Rage on Jan 30, 2020 13:58:47 GMT
So a vote for Brexit was fuelled partly by dissatisfaction with a particular type of 'right-on' media that was becoming acceptable (or even standard)? Pretty much. That and the fact you're not allowed to call brown people "Pakis" any more. Some people hate that. Someone always reduces objections to pc culture to something as crudely basic as this i.e. actual racist epithet when it’s more to do with how definitions have been warped and expanded by a chosen pc minority and people objecting to this instead. Particular when it’s used to tar, denigrate and shut down debate people who aren’t actually racist. Look what’s happened to Alastair Stewart for example
|
|
|
Post by Half Machine Lipschitz on Jan 30, 2020 13:59:47 GMT
Who?
|
|
|
Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Jan 30, 2020 14:02:02 GMT
Me and D talked a bit about this last night.
The problem I have with this "popular culture is out of sync with popular thought" idea is not that it's wrong, but that it doesn't mean that popular thought should hold sway. If the majority think a certain way, that doesn't mean that they're right and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean that popular culture should reflect that.
And I don't know where to go from there.
|
|
|
Post by Reactionary Rage on Jan 30, 2020 14:06:45 GMT
About time. Right on comedy is like an oxymoron to me but it’s less of an issue in the US than over here. The cultural hegemony of the left is pretty deeply ingrained (Hollywood, tech industry, academia) but they are increasingly out of sync with the wider population. The pushback and fall out won’t be pretty but it’s long overdue. Like Toby, you can't see the wood for the trees when it comes to this stuff bcause you see everything in such binary terms.
The only thing Mrs Browns Boys is a "victory" for is bad comedy. And bad comedy has always been around and often it's been hugely popular. Mrs Browns Boys is a load of shit however comedy needs to push at the edges but it's hard to do that in today's culture as much. I don't think that's a controversial thing to say, G. Watch the video. Something is happening but truthfully I don't think you are really up to speed with all this. I know that sounds a bit patronising and I'm not trying to be but it makes convo hard truthfully.
|
|