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Post by DarknessFish on May 18, 2020 9:24:26 GMT
That Ian Curtis died. Warning: Contains no fucking Beatles content, thankfully Also 148 years since Bertrand Russell was born. Coincidence? Yes.
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god
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Post by ~ / % ? * on May 18, 2020 13:05:06 GMT
What is left to be said? As a big fan, i think he did the work he came to do. I don't think he had much more that was different to accomplish. He definitely had growing and maturing to do, but he already laid down his template and hd he lived would have filled it out. Mainly he would have staved off New Order.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 13:43:16 GMT
I hear the last sentence quite a lot, but I'm not convinced by it at all. The direction New Order went in was a natural development and you can hear the roots of it in JD tracks like Isolation, Transmission and These Days. I don't see New Order's sound as any kind of betrayal of Joy Division.
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Post by ~ / % ? * on May 18, 2020 13:47:50 GMT
Indeed, I guess the main value is Curtis' shadow would have been there to darken their accessibility just a tad. Lyrically, and volition-wise Curtis served his purpose, musically the band would have continued to develop as they did. Their main challenge would have been to walk the fine line between Goth fright show silliness and total mainstream innocuousness.
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Post by Crunchy Col on May 18, 2020 14:29:01 GMT
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Post by Charlie O. on May 18, 2020 15:56:49 GMT
musically the band would have continued to develop as they did. We'll never know, but I'm not convinced of this. By all accounts that I've read Curtis was very much JD's musical director as well as lyricist. Beyond the fact that JD sometimes used synthesizers, sequencers, etc. I don't really hear much to link JD with New Order's hits (some of which I very much like, for the record).
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Sneelock
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Post by Sneelock on May 18, 2020 16:18:51 GMT
also, doesn't it seem like the first couple of New Order albums are "finding their way"? I certainly think so.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 17:17:22 GMT
He couldn't have continued as it was with the intensity of his epilepsy and medication, beside everything else going on in his life. It looks obvious now. He needed at least a sabbatical for a while, but he was the driving force behind the band, he was the one keeping them together, how could he have said "sorry guys, I can't do this any more" right at the moment they were breaking through? It's just really sad. There's a lot of hindsight now, and a lot of people looking in from afar, but I can't fully understand why no-one realised the suffering he was going through. He had attempted suicide a few months previously and left a note. It was just shrugged off. Going from interviews and Jon Savage's oral history of the band it's clear that only Annik Honore had a real insight into what was going on in his head.
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Post by ~ / % ? * on May 18, 2020 17:42:17 GMT
Exactly, but we were not sophisticated about depression and suicide back then as were are now. MAOIs and tricyclics would have been his options with their heavy duty side effects (though ironically many new depression meds would be developed from epilepsy drugs), SSRI/SNRIs were not yet available. Under treatment, might the direction, change, lighten?
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Post by Charlie O. on May 18, 2020 18:22:42 GMT
We'll never know. Going from what I think I remember from Deborah Curtis' book (which I admittedly read a long time ago), Ian was obsessed with suicide since his teens at least (there were attempts going back that far), even before his epileptic seizures became a major issue. Somebody like that isn't likely to have the patience to wait for new meds (which may or may not be effective/have horrible side effects) to be developed.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on May 18, 2020 19:35:05 GMT
Exactly, but we were not sophisticated about depression and suicide back then as were are now. MAOIs and tricyclics would have been his options with their heavy duty side effects (though ironically many new depression meds would be developed from epilepsy drugs), SSRI/SNRIs were not yet available. Under treatment, might the direction, change, lighten? From what the band have said they appeared to be completely shocked that he killed himself as if they didn't see it coming at all. I don't doubt that as odd as it sounds now given everything. They were young lads.
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Post by Crunchy Col on May 18, 2020 21:43:32 GMT
Rob Gretton took the band shopping to get some clothes for the US tour (which of course never happened) - here's what they got
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Post by Crunchy Col on May 22, 2020 21:28:45 GMT
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Post by Crunchy Col on May 22, 2020 21:35:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 21:47:11 GMT
musically the band would have continued to develop as they did. We'll never know, but I'm not convinced of this. By all accounts that I've read Curtis was very much JD's musical director as well as lyricist. Beyond the fact that JD sometimes used synthesizers, sequencers, etc. I don't really hear much to link JD with New Order's hits (some of which I very much like, for the record). The thing with Curtis is he's frozen in time, trapped within the image we have of him in the post-punk era. But by all accounts he liked to be on the cutting edge of things and discover new music. He probably woldn't have been listening to the same stuff in 1982 as he was in 1979. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he would have been listening to similar stuff to Sumner in the early 80s - New York electro, Italia-disco etc but of course we'll never know.
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