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Post by tory on Jun 25, 2020 22:00:15 GMT
He's been bankrupted 5 times and yet he's a billionaire and President of the USA.
I just don't think that's the action of someone "stupid" or "thick". Immoral, devious, downright dodgy, yes. But stupid?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2020 22:03:41 GMT
There are several types of intelligence.
And as I said, much of Trump's apparent stupidity is actually just manifestations of his narcisicm.
Yes he can be thick and canny and successful - and again his narcissism is a big boost to that. There were several big influences of Trump the man and candidate (his father, Roy Kohn, Mark Burnett) the natures and success and techniques of whom appealed to Trump and yes, give him the credit for being canny (or bold, brassy and thick, whatever) enough to run with what he learned and how he was being groomed - but self-aggrandising and bullshit is what the narcissist is about. Add the 80s, property and the nature of celebrity ... Trump the president is a conflation of all those elements and more. I'll give him canny (in that narcissists way). But not bright.
I forgot Dave Grohl.
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Post by sloopjohnc on Jun 25, 2020 22:37:21 GMT
He's been bankrupted 5 times and yet he's a billionaire and President of the USA. I just don't think that's the action of someone "stupid" or "thick". Immoral, devious, downright dodgy, yes. But stupid? He says he's a billionaire, but he never showed his taxes like every other presidential candidate. Why do you think that is? He constantly borrows against debt because Deutsche Bank has let him. My bet is that he's not.
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Sneelock
god
hey Daddy-O. I don't wanna go.
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Post by Sneelock on Jun 25, 2020 22:47:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 2:23:53 GMT
If Donald Trump is thick, why is he President of the USA? Because being thick doesn't exclude you from becoming President. Reagan and GWB had already proved that.
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Post by daveythefatboy on Jun 26, 2020 10:58:20 GMT
Donald Trump isn’t “canny.” If he were, he’d certainly avoid a lot of the unforced political errors he makes daily.
Trump has two attributes that have gotten him where he is:
1. Inherited wealth - without which, let’s face it - none of us would ever have heard of him. 2. No shame.
The combination of these two things is confused with intelligence all the time. But it turns out that a person with unearned notoriety can go pretty far by simply not caring about the consequences of their extreme attention-seeking.
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Post by Crunchy Col on Jun 26, 2020 11:03:34 GMT
Absolutely spot on.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 11:27:00 GMT
Donald Trump isn’t “canny.” If he were, he’d certainly avoid a lot of the unforced political errors he makes daily. Trump has two attributes that have gotten him where he is: 1. Inherited wealth - without which, let’s face it - none of us would ever have heard of him. 2. No shame. The combination of these two things is confused with intelligence all the time. But it turns out that a person with unearned notoriety can go pretty far by simply not caring about the consequences of their extreme attention-seeking. Not canny in the wider sense but in the personal sense but more specific than that. He seems stupid but mainly as he doesn't take much interest in things that aren't connected or concerned with himself - that's the narcissist. As president, he's had to engage with things that don't interest him as they're not about him - you can see it when he makes irrelevant comments or when he makes comments about himself ("Coronavirus deaths? Oh yes I'm more popular than ever"). He big ups other people only in order to get them to big him up - if it doesn't work slags them off... for years. When he finds something that gives good feedback to him or boosts his ego in other ways, he exploits it (brewing hate and spreading blame - which as a narcissist he's inclined to do anyway - the(y're always accusing others of their own negative traits and he's certainly found his audience) - * that* kind of canny. Along with the "Up is down if I say it is and I'll sack/sue/hound you if say otherwise" approach he learned from Kohn.) It's served him very well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 11:33:39 GMT
Behavior that feeds the ever-needy ego. Every single thing he says or does is driven by it. No, really, I've watched it for a while now.
It just so happens the mix of neediness of narcissism (and the canniness which comes with it to manipulate things to feed that need), 80s, men who've influenced him, celebrity and money have got him there. Along with the political opportunity of the economy (and racism) and the appeal of a man like that to the politically disenfranchised.
An almost unbelievable set of circumstances but there we are.
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Post by sloopjohnc on Jun 26, 2020 12:45:43 GMT
Donald Trump isn’t “canny.” If he were, he’d certainly avoid a lot of the unforced political errors he makes daily. Trump has two attributes that have gotten him where he is: 1. Inherited wealth - without which, let’s face it - none of us would ever have heard of him. 2. No shame. The combination of these two things is confused with intelligence all the time. But it turns out that a person with unearned notoriety can go pretty far by simply not caring about the consequences of their extreme attention-seeking. Both covered in a previous post of mine in this thread, but bears repeating.
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Sneelock
god
hey Daddy-O. I don't wanna go.
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Post by Sneelock on Jun 26, 2020 15:17:26 GMT
the biggest bummer about TRUMP is that people admire him just the way he is - for the very qualities that make me want to turn away and be sick. this is a long term problem. those people screaming about Bill Gates at Town Hall meetings aren't going away......
EVER.
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Post by sloopjohnc on Jun 26, 2020 15:39:13 GMT
the biggest bummer about TRUMP is that people admire him just the way he is - for the very qualities that make me want to turn away and be sick. this is a long term problem. those people screaming about Bill Gates at Town Hall meetings aren't going away...... Me too. It's like the man unlocked the uncivilized gate or Pandora's Box or something in the last 3 1/2 years. When I see people, and they always seem to be white folks, indignant at getting stopped going into stores without their masks or being told to wear one and coughing on people, I wonder if this would have happened before Trump was elected. Or that they wished they'd been able to get away with it, but the fear of societal shaming would have stopped them. Trump has given them a license to be assholes and they don't feel afraid to display that license to everyone. I am truly amazed at the amount of inhumanity, ignorance, uncaring, and lack of conscience. Adults tend to say children these days are coddled and selfish, but I wonder who raised these people where they feel that this is okay. My mom and dad were from the "treat others how you'd want to be treated" and "if you borrow something, return it in better shape than you got it" school.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 19:54:22 GMT
When asked about being hassled when out, it was Ringo who pointed out that the fans know what town they're in when they're touring. I've also seen him interviewed (late 90s early 00s) when he quite wittily joked about a baggage carosel being named after him (compared to the other guys). So not always that thick.
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Sneelock
god
hey Daddy-O. I don't wanna go.
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Post by Sneelock on Jun 26, 2020 21:18:02 GMT
And as I said, much of Trump's apparent stupidity is actually just manifestations of his narcisicm. He was on FOX answering questions presumably as a part of his campaign for re-election. The moderator was Sean Hannity who is probably the single biggest high profile TRUMP supporter on a Network that's full of them. Someone in the audience asked him, in so many words, what his plans were for his second term. TRUMP didn't know what to say. TRUMP did what he always does when he doesn't know what to say - he says a lot. he just yammers and yammers. words come out - like those magnetic poem words you see on people's refrigerators sometimes. the words come out and don't really make a lot of sense.
He's running for President and "what do you want to achieve in your second term?" took him by surprise. Most people running for President have a TEAM of people prepping them to be prepared for questions much, much harder than this one. So, if he's a smart guy and he wants to win he's got experts. TRUMP doesn't need experts because he's a fucking know-it-all.
I don't really feel like lining up the THICKO planets but I am pretty bummed about Ringo (and to a certain extent Michael Caine). I mean, when you're a fan of somebody for a long time you work up a lot of good will. well, both those guys used up all my good will years ago. I can't be disappointed by things they do now because they can't disappoint me anymore. they can, however, bum me out that I feel that way about them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 22:07:45 GMT
Donald Trump isn’t “canny.” If he were, he’d certainly avoid a lot of the unforced political errors he makes daily. Trump has two attributes that have gotten him where he is: 1. Inherited wealth - without which, let’s face it - none of us would ever have heard of him. 2. No shame. The combination of these two things is confused with intelligence all the time. But it turns out that a person with unearned notoriety can go pretty far by simply not caring about the consequences of their extreme attention-seeking. I don't know if the rest of that post was in reply to my calling him 'canny', but I explained what I meant by 'canny' - surviving and thriving when you're needy as a narcissist canny is what I meant, as I explained. Perhaps your latter points aren't in reply to mine, but I do think putting his success down to your two points is over-simplifying. True but misses out the core of what drives him and explains his every move and how he was groomed for success and what set of conditions got him there. Without his wealth, he'd never have been in his position that's true (he'd've been the same kind of man in some other field - successful in a job where bullshit is effective) but there are plenty of rich and ruthless people out there. I still put down his success to those elements I mentioned - and which do cover your two points (his father providing the wealth, the narcissism providing the blindness and brazenness). Don't think some of you are getting what I'm saying and I'm getting a bit tired of saying it, so yeah, OK.
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