Led Zeppelin vs The Stooges

[Deleted]

Stooges for me, i genuinely genuinely genuinely don't hear why Page and Bonham are considered one of the greatest with their chosen instrument. When page does make an effort on guitar, especially acoustic, yeah he's good but....did he really write it?
It's a totally different discussion for the stooges, just shut the fuck up, turn it up, and go mental.

[daveythefatboy]

I don’t dismiss either - but neither of these acts really matters to me much.

They were both perfect for the IPod shuffle experience (I have to dig mine out). They sound great when a random track of theirs comes on after...say...Palisades Park.

But I am never in the mood to seek either out.

[Sneelock]

I seek both out almost constantly. Davey is not holding up his end and I don't want the universe to fly apart as a result.

[sloopjohnc]

Sept 25, 2020 16:13:26 GMT daveythefatboy said:

I don’t dismiss either - but neither of these acts really matters to me much.

Have you ever rawked? I mean, really rawked.

[~ / % ? *]

Sept 25, 2020 12:19:32 GMT Markus said:

Stooges for me, i genuinely genuinely genuinely don't hear why Page and Bonham are considered one of the greatest with their chosen instrument. When page does make an effort on guitar, especially acoustic, yeah he's good but....did he really write it?
It's a totally different discussion for the stooges, just shut the fuck up, turn it up, and go mental.

No doubt, Page benefitted from a rich vibrant musical time, he heard, listened, stole, synthesized. His interest and influences were/are quite vast: folk, blues, rockabilly, Indian, Moroccan, Turkish, etc., he had the vision and the skills to use it, juxtapose it. He is of the generation that understood dexterity on acoustic and electric was just part of being a guitarist/musician. He is one of the last that could long form solo with all his influences take you someplace, because he developed a distinct narrative instrumental voice, not too many one could say that about in the last 20 years, Trey Anasatasio, maybe. The Stooges' context is Zeppelin, Hendrix, etc., they couldn't do what those guys did, but they wanted to be part of the music badly and they did. But ironically they would be considered quite transgressive nowadays that they couldn't do what they did. 

[sloopjohnc]

Sept 25, 2020 12:19:32 GMT Markus said:

Stooges for me, i genuinely genuinely genuinely don't hear why Page and Bonham are considered one of the greatest with their chosen instrument. When page does make an effort on guitar, especially acoustic, yeah he's good but....did he really write it?
It's a totally different discussion for the stooges, just shut the fuck up, turn it up, and go mental.

Zeppelin were the Radiohead of their day.

[daveythefatboy]

Sept 26, 2020 13:50:02 GMT sloopjohnc said:

Sept 25, 2020 16:13:26 GMT daveythefatboy said:

I don’t dismiss either - but neither of these acts really matters to me much.

Have you ever rawked? I mean, really rawked.

I dunno, man.

Have you never been mellow?

[Deleted]

Sept 26, 2020 14:52:24 GMT sloopjohnc said:

Sept 25, 2020 12:19:32 GMT Markus said:

Stooges for me, i genuinely genuinely genuinely don't hear why Page and Bonham are considered one of the greatest with their chosen instrument. When page does make an effort on guitar, especially acoustic, yeah he's good but....did he really write it?
It's a totally different discussion for the stooges, just shut the fuck up, turn it up, and go mental.

Zeppelin were the Radiohead of their day.

How very dare you sir!

[sloopjohnc]

Sept 26, 2020 16:42:23 GMT daveythefatboy said:

Sept 26, 2020 13:50:02 GMT sloopjohnc said:

Have you ever rawked? I mean, really rawked.

I dunno, man.

Have you never been mellow?

Does not answer the question.

[daveythefatboy]

Sept 26, 2020 18:41:58 GMT sloopjohnc said:

Sept 26, 2020 16:42:23 GMT daveythefatboy said:

I dunno, man.

Have you never been mellow?

Does not answer the question.

Sure. But not without the roll.

[daveythefatboy]

[Deleted]

Sept 26, 2020 14:12:36 GMT ~ / % ? * said:

Sept 25, 2020 12:19:32 GMT Markus said:

Stooges for me, i genuinely genuinely genuinely don't hear why Page and Bonham are considered one of the greatest with their chosen instrument. When page does make an effort on guitar, especially acoustic, yeah he's good but....did he really write it?
It's a totally different discussion for the stooges, just shut the fuck up, turn it up, and go mental.

No doubt, Page benefitted from a rich vibrant musical time, he heard, listened, stole, synthesized. His interest and influences were/are quite vast: folk, blues, rockabilly, Indian, Moroccan, Turkish, etc., he had the vision and the skills to use it, juxtapose it. He is of the generation that understood dexterity on acoustic and electric was just part of being a guitarist/musician. He is one of the last that could long form solo with all his influences take you someplace, because he developed a distinct narrative instrumental voice, not too many one could say that about in the last 20 years, Trey Anasatasio, maybe. The Stooges' context is Zeppelin, Hendrix, etc., they couldn't do what those guys did, but they wanted to be part of the music badly and they did. But ironically they would be considered quite transgressive nowadays that they couldn't do what they did. 

I've haven't heard every interview by well know modern day guitarists, but I've never heard him really mentioned as an influence. The last time i heard was squire with the stone roses. I suppose i should clarify that he does have talent but he doesn't stand out, or stand out often. I listen to the immigrant song and i like it. It's urgent, busy drums which i like but i always feel like it's missing something. Then i hear a recording of it at a festival and page throws in a guitar solo. It's ok without being brilliant but it completes the song. I'm thinking "yeah, nice, that's better". Maybe it's a gimmick for selling more tickets that he only does it live, but it sounded better. I said this to a lead zep fan before and he said Kashmir. I immediately doubted how big a fan he was. Plant and the strings make that tune. Not buying the drumming argument, no matter how much people want to put the skill in to the timing and the deliberate pace of it, the drumming. The thing is i love tunes with busy drumming or busy sounding drumming. That's why my favourite drummer is jimmy Chamberlain. I just don't hear Bonham doing anything madly different or new, even back then.

[~ / % ? *]

Sept 26, 2020 20:28:10 GMT Markus said:

Sept 26, 2020 14:12:36 GMT ~ / % ? * said:

No doubt, Page benefitted from a rich vibrant musical time, he heard, listened, stole, synthesized. His interest and influences were/are quite vast: folk, blues, rockabilly, Indian, Moroccan, Turkish, etc., he had the vision and the skills to use it, juxtapose it. He is of the generation that understood dexterity on acoustic and electric was just part of being a guitarist/musician. He is one of the last that could long form solo with all his influences take you someplace, because he developed a distinct narrative instrumental voice, not too many one could say that about in the last 20 years, Trey Anasatasio, maybe. The Stooges' context is Zeppelin, Hendrix, etc., they couldn't do what those guys did, but they wanted to be part of the music badly and they did. But ironically they would be considered quite transgressive nowadays that they couldn't do what they did. 

I've haven't heard every interview by well know modern day guitarists, but I've never heard him really mentioned as an influence. The last time i heard was squire with the stone roses. I suppose i should clarify that he does have talent but he doesn't stand out, or stand out often. I listen to the immigrant song and i like it. It's urgent, busy drums which i like but i always feel like it's missing something. Then i hear a recording of it at a festival and page throws in a guitar solo. It's ok without being brilliant but it completes the song. I'm thinking "yeah, nice, that's better". Maybe it's a gimmick for selling more tickets that he only does it live, but it sounded better. I said this to a lead zep fan before and he said Kashmir. I immediately doubted how big a fan he was. Plant and the strings make that tune. Not buying the drumming argument, no matter how much people want to put the skill in to the timing and the deliberate pace of it, the drumming. The thing is i love tunes with busy drumming or busy sounding drumming. That's why my favourite drummer is jimmy Chamberlain. I just don't hear Bonham doing anything madly different or new, even back then.

I think you have answered your own question. I assume you realize anything Smashing Pumpkins, Chamberlain, Squire, etc., are doing, have done, rests on, is built upon, is seeking to be what Page, Bonham, Zep, etc., has done. But you are crediting the carbon copies (Smashing Pumpkins, Chamberlain, Squire, etc., at least 2-3 times removed) with distinction. I understand each age needs its own artists wrapped in that age's context, thus Pumpkins, Soundgarden, Metallica, etc., all following in Zep's, Hendrix's, Sabbath's well trod path, yet never going to those band's influences thus never bettering/surpassing them, only reducing a carbon copy of a carbon copy of a carbon copy. However, I get they are distinct to those they reach and speak to, though they never look beyond them. 

Page's production, songwriting, and conceptualizing of an album's thematic, motific, and sonic cohesiveness probably outstrips his influence as a guitar player at this point (because nobody plays that way anymore).

[Deleted]

Yeah i don't reall buy that argument that some times springs up where people say, (I'll use the beatles as an example) you can't hear the beatles in slayer's music, but slayer sites Bowie as an fluence who was influenced by the beatles, so therefore, ergo, vis a vis, slayer are influenced by the beatles. But that's a different debate.

Anyway is your point that even though page was an immoral magpie of music he's still influential whether i see skill or not in his playing?

[sloopjohnc]

Sept 27, 2020 15:17:38 GMT Markus said:

Yeah i don't reall buy that argument that some times springs up where people say, (I'll use the beatles as an example) you can't hear the beatles in slayer's music, but slayer sites Bowie as an fluence who was influenced by the beatles, so therefore, ergo, vis a vis, slayer are influenced by the beatles. But that's a different debate.

Anyway is your point that even though page was an immoral magpie of music he's still influential whether i see skill or not in his playing?

To buttress your point, one of McCartney's biggest fans is Ozzy Osbourne and he said he was speechless when he met McCartney. You'd never get that from Ozzy's music.