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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Sept 22, 2020 21:08:46 GMT
what DIDN'T the Velvets have that the Beatles had? (apart from success/money etc.) Why do you think there's such a huge gap? More than four good albums. Pretty similar 'classic vs. dross' ratio, but nowhere near the sheer depth, diversity, or productivity. I don't think the number of albums is a fair metric. And of course quantity and quality are two very different things. Diversity, yeah, I'll give you. The Beatles did 'Yesterday' and they did 'I Am The Walrus'. Maybe I'm appealing to the folk who love the latter but hate the former...
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Sept 22, 2020 21:11:07 GMT
Rayge voted, I see. The fact that I don't instantly think it's a ridiculous comparison says much for the Velvets, who probably are, ultimately, my second-favorite band of all-time. That said, it still isn't that close. Goggles intact, in other words. Just now, as the 11th voter
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Sept 22, 2020 21:14:43 GMT
just like Sister Ray said
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Post by Charlie O. on Sept 22, 2020 21:15:43 GMT
The Velvets , they had it all and they were not afraid or constrained by anything. a) Even as a massive fan, I could argue with that.
b) This suggests that you think The Beatles were afraid or constrained by... something?
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Sept 22, 2020 21:55:09 GMT
Commercial expectations? Epstein/George M's 'push'?
I know, they were brave musically and got to a point where they were answerable to nobody, but still....
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Post by daveythefatboy on Sept 22, 2020 22:02:03 GMT
against Julie Newmar in 1964? in a black teddy? I’d like to be against 1964 Julie Newmar in a black Teddy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 22:02:18 GMT
The Velvets , they had it all and they were not afraid or constrained by anything. a) Even as a massive fan, I could argue with that.
b) This suggests that you think The Beatles were afraid or constrained by... something?
A) well, you are B) Something? Each other ,ego , legacy . I knew the Beatles from radio 2 and me mam singing along. When I first heard the Velvets (constantly name checked in the late seventies by bands I liked) I knew from the off that really great music wasn't playlist friendly. I left the well lit streets and visited the part of town where you never know what is going to happen next.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Sept 22, 2020 22:03:35 GMT
Torry?
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Sept 22, 2020 22:07:30 GMT
The Beatles. Better songwriters, better looking, sharper threads, more colour, more fun, more moving with a drummer who can actually drum and singers who can sing too.
Much more likeable as people too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 22:09:23 GMT
. I don't know what Lou would have made of a night out there , ha ha, fuck that made me laugh.
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Post by Charlie O. on Sept 22, 2020 22:09:29 GMT
Commercial expectations? Epstein/George M's 'push'? I know, they were brave musically and got to a point where they were answerable to nobody, but still.... I think the Beatles made the records they wanted to make. I've read nothing to suggest otherwise, other than John - years later - saying things like he'd wanted "Help" to be slower, or that there were certain songs he didn't like. But... he said shit like that, especially right after the break-up. And that's no more than various Velvets members have retrospectively said about their records. Mo was pissed off not to get another crack at "Heroin" (there's a point near the end of the album version where she gets confused and stops playing, expecting the others to do the same; Lou just laughs and carries on). Sterling was sufficiently pissed off about the mix on "I Heard Her Call My Name" to quit the band temporarily. Lou always talked about battles with the engineers. And so on. Meanwhile, what is Loaded if not a compromise? Don't get me wrong, I love it, but it was very much a conscious reining in of their wilder impulses. Ahmet Ertegun said "Don't give me any songs about heroin or any of that shit" and they said "Yessir, sir."
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Post by Sneelock on Sept 22, 2020 22:18:18 GMT
and damned if they didn't rise to the occasion. I mean, I might admit there's some duds but that's a pretty strong record.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 22:19:50 GMT
Loaded is a band trying to pay the rent.It's what happens when it all turns to shit ( Let it be for example). I think George kinda felt a tad aggrieved about things and the white album isn't the Beatles having a lovely tea with uncle George. The studio dynamics and relationships are one thing. In the end the actual end product is what thrills you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 22:42:58 GMT
More than four good albums. Pretty similar 'classic vs. dross' ratio, but nowhere near the sheer depth, diversity, or productivity. I don't think the number of albums is a fair metric. And of course quantity and quality are two very different things. Diversity, yeah, I'll give you. The Beatles did 'Yesterday' and they did 'I Am The Walrus'. Maybe I'm appealing to the folk who love the latter but hate the former... It's a bit more than diversity as you know. But the arguments for The Beatles are so overfamiliar that it's difficult to put them forward without boring others and boring oneself!
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Post by Sneelock on Sept 22, 2020 22:46:10 GMT
If I were going to bore myself you'd think I'd have done it by now. blablabla melodies! blablabla LSD! blablabla production blablabla influence!
blablablablablabla
that felt GREAT!
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