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Post by DarknessFish on Sept 25, 2020 19:37:20 GMT
But tell someone for whom Pet Sounds has been literally a lifeline at one or many points in their life that it's overrated, and to them you're more or less saying that they themselves are "overrated" - even when they know that's not your intent. Never mind that. Let's go back to "not getting" something. Why do we find it so hard to admit that we "just don't get it"? There's lots of things I "just don't get" - there are for all of us. Why do we always feel the need to fall back on "there's nothing there" or "it's overrated" or some variation thereof - especially for an album that has obviously meant a lot to a lot of people for decades, whether it's Pet Sounds or Kind Of Blue or Unknown Pleasures or whatever? What is it that always seems to drive us to say "those people have been deluding themselves all this time, and I know The Truth"? I always try not to be confrontational, or dismissive of anyone's opinion. But I can't help but feel I have the right to be dismissive of any album. In the past I've defended the use of "overrated", because I think it's a reasonable shorthand for "this record is highly regarded by people with similar taste, whose opinions I respect and take notice of, and it fell short of my expectations". I wouldn't use it for Pet Sounds, because of the taste thing, I don't know many people who've even mentioned it in the past, it's not something I'd seek opinion on. I'd use it more for Gang of Four's "Entertainment", or "Loveless", "Marquee Moon", or anything by The Gerogerigegege. Something like that. But "I don't get it" indicates some failure of understanding, and I'm not sure thats the case. I can see how the record may appeal to some, I can understand the craft, but if it doesn't speak to me, if what it's doing is not what I want, it's not really a "I don't get it", it's a "it's not for me". If it's not for me, if I don't like it, I'm not going to agree that it's a work of genius, I don't know how I could agree to that without being disingenuous. Your last line though, "those people have been deluding themselves all this time, and I know The Truth"? This seems more of a voice from the pro-canon side of the argument. I've never claimed anything about anyone's reasons for liking something, I see that kind of projected attitude all the time, Davey alluded to it in the VU thread (in a very well phrased, inoffensive way) "For folks who identify more with The VU, there is a sense of having found something of great value that others don’t hold dearly enough." Often that argument is stated with more brazen "they only like this because they...." sentiments, and it winds me up something rotten.
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Post by DarknessFish on Sept 25, 2020 19:38:44 GMT
I really overused quotation marks there. Sorry.
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fange
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Listening to long jazz tracks
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Post by fange on Sept 25, 2020 21:49:55 GMT
Yes, i agree with you, Fishy.
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fange
god
Listening to long jazz tracks
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Post by fange on Sept 25, 2020 21:53:31 GMT
Not about the quotes (although... ), the thoughts above that.
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Sept 28, 2020 13:49:21 GMT
I think Pet Sounds is overrated n the same way Forever Changes, There's a Riot.., Purple Rain, , etc., are becoming the stand in summation of a band's/artist's work. Everything they did rests in the consideration of that one album/work. It is a human tendency to sum things up, particularly if you weren't part of that moment, and the further we get away from that moment. There is so much stuff out there, layering and layering upon each other with each passing year, summing an artist up in one work becomes convenient, expedient, and limiting.
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Post by daveythefatboy on Sept 28, 2020 16:42:01 GMT
Can eternity afford to be a completist?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 16:53:08 GMT
For me PS is four or five great tracks supported by the rest. The rest are good rather than great for me. I also don't find the same varied emotional and stylistic landscape in the album that others are finding. Put it like this, on it's own something like 'Caroline No' is a lovely, tender track, but within the context of the album it can feel like another rather mopey song.
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Post by bungo the mungo on Sept 28, 2020 17:04:11 GMT
oh, G! ffs.
YOU of all people.
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Post by daveythefatboy on Sept 28, 2020 17:12:05 GMT
For me PS is four or five great tracks supported by the rest. The rest are good rather than great for me. I also don't find the same varied emotional and stylistic landscape in the album that others are finding. Put it like this, on it's own something like 'Caroline No' is a lovely, tender track, but within the context of the album it can feel like another rather mopey song. Wow, really? To me, Caroline is the emotional summation of the whole album. The underlying theme of the album is something about letting go of youth, innocence and idealism. So to have the last words sung question be: Could I ever find in you again The things that made me love you so much then Could we ever bring 'em back once they have gone Oh, Caroline...no That just breaks my heart - and it breaks my heart in a way that feels cumulative. Like every heartache packed into that album, and every heartache of my life - all just boil over at the same time. I should add that I had Caroline No on a cassette for several years before I’d ever heard Pet Sounds in its entirety, and I really didn’t feel it the same way out of the album’s context. So my experience is obviously very different than your “another mopey song” dismissal. FWIW.
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toomanyhatz
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Post by toomanyhatz on Sept 28, 2020 17:30:51 GMT
I will say that the idea that "Sloop John B." is the one weak track is never one I've agreed with. I'm a "folkie," of course (as was, and is, Al Jardine), so I think it's a great song, but beyond that, the musical arrangement really makes something new and Beach Boys-y of it. No fake Bahamian accents, no fetishism, just Brian and his inventive arrangement. The part where it breaks down to just the bass doing that melodic line, then the drums go into double-time...damn! Never gets old.
I mean, doesn't fit with the underlying theme, I guess, but it has a function within it by being a break from it. Sort of like intermission music, maybe?
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Post by Crunchy Col on Sept 28, 2020 17:34:45 GMT
I think we need a sync-listen...
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Post by daveythefatboy on Sept 28, 2020 17:40:52 GMT
I will say that the idea that "Sloop John B." is the one weak track is never one I've agreed with. I'm a "folkie," of course (as was, and is, Al Jardine), so I think it's a great song, but beyond that, the musical arrangement really makes something new and Beach Boys-y of it. No fake Bahamian accents, no fetishism, just Brian and his inventive arrangement. The part where it breaks down to just the bass doing that melodic line, then the drums go into double-time...damn! Never gets old. I mean, doesn't fit with the underlying theme, I guess, but it has a function within it by being a break from it. Sort of like intermission music, maybe? I think of it as fitting into the theme, in that it is the kind of song you learn when you are young. Most people don’t dig into folk music after they hit adulthood. Their exposure happens (if it ever happens) through something like a school chorus or music appreciation class. So to me - it feels like a part of the whole in a weird, abstract way.
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Sneelock
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Post by Sneelock on Sept 28, 2020 17:46:08 GMT
I think it nudges considering the whole thing "a concept album" nearer to making sense. there's lots of relationship stuff. the first track is 'wouldn't it be nice' on the last track - things maybe aren't as nice as we hoped.
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Post by npht on Sept 28, 2020 21:10:03 GMT
I'm border line on this. Pet Sounds is a great album in the top 50 for me. However, its not a top 20 for me so I guess that makes it overrated as most have it as a top 10 album.
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Post by Crunchy Col on Oct 24, 2020 21:09:53 GMT
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