Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 0:45:31 GMT
It's unfortunate that I've had to make this public, but attempting to resolve things behind the scenes hasn't worked for various reasons. So what's this about? Well earlier in the week I was subject to an unprovoked and extremely abusive attack. I've been told I should just laugh it off and forget it, but I don't want to because I think if we accept that it's okay for people to be subjected to this, then it's really not the kind of site I want to be on. So part of the point of this thread is to find out how people think we should behave on here. I've always known this forum had a bitchy nature, pretty much from the beginning, but there's a real danger that this has tipped over into a genuinely poisonous nastiness, particularly as there is a tolerance of this which verges on tacit encouragement.
I will lay out what happened for those that don't know. Unlike most internet 'wars' this had little in the way of escalation. It all started innocently enough with the usual tiresome winging about posters when the thread was meant to be about Can. My name was dragged into it, even though I hadn't actually posted on the said thread. I asked Jimmy to "knock it on the head", a pretty reasonable request I think. At that point we should have moved on, but Jimmy then started accusing me of all sorts of negativities and of admonishing others. Mindful of the uncomfortable situation I was getting into with a poster who was becoming increasingly unhinged, I decided to mollify him with some rational points. I explained that in the last few days, I'd actually I'd posted positively on a whole range of acts, which I named, and only said one mildly negative comment on one act ( if you can call saying ' I couldn't get into it' about a Spirit album particularly negative). I finished by telling him to grow up and start treating others with a little more respect.
At this point something triggered in Jimmy. I think if we'd been in a pub he would have put a glass in my face. He launched into a violent, deeply abusive tirade. Here are some edited highlights: Some of it might not make sense because it wasn't very eloquent, but you'll get the gist.. "Discussion strangled by continual points of order..". I have no idea what he means by this, but anyway. "Sheer volume of thread crapping" "Major bore" "Any joy or serious interest in any opposing dialogue is long long way behind you" I apparently want to put everyone " in the same hole you dug for yourself" And on it went. I'm getting tired of writing it out and it gets more unhinged and venomous. You can read it if you wish.
So he doesn't like me as a poster, I think I get the point. I've been told to forget about it and laugh it off, but this is why I don't want to do that. Do we want a board where people just attack each other like Twitter trolls or manic keyboard warriors, while the rest of the board pretend to look at their shoes? Have we given up on standards of behaviour and mutual respect? What exactly can we expect when we log in to this site..endless berating, intolerance, nasty insinuations, cruelty? Are we happy with that? Should we have a hierarchy of posters where some are given carte blanche to behave as they want, while the less popular ones are banished if they transgress? I'd like to know and would be interested in opinions. I was told this place wouldn't be like BCB, that it would be better. How's that going? People we can be better than this.
"
|
|
|
Post by Sneelock on Jun 11, 2021 5:19:45 GMT
pistols at dawn?
|
|
|
Post by tory on Jun 11, 2021 5:57:32 GMT
One of the things I've learned with student behaviour is that if you don't define your expectations in detail, then it is impossible to get students to behave the way you want.
So it is necessary to outline behaviour expectation in order to get them to conform to them.
Should forums, such as this place, have that?
BCB never did that, and nor has Preludin.
To a certain extent, one could argue that it's not been that necessary. There has been a hazy, unwritten code of "don't be a twat" over the years which has been mostly adhered to by everyone. People "rub along ok" and don't need guides or rules with sanctions when they break them.
But perhaps we do need them.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Jun 11, 2021 6:20:49 GMT
We don't.
I wonder whether it's because G has rarely had to deal with anyone being rude to him on the boards over the years that this outburst by Jimmy has upset him so much. As I've said to G privately I think J was OTT and I understand why G feels aggrieved. But still - I think this is an overreaction. The rather dramatic language G uses in his post do not reflect what happened, to my mind. That last paragraph especially is histrionic.
Most of us have had to deal with this - and worse - and we sort it out ourselves one way or another. Or we don't! But this is the nature of message boards where people are given free rein to say what they feel.
I can see this becoming one of those five-page things where everyone chimes in with their own notions of what 'free speech' means, and nothing at all gets resolved, and in fact potentially some things get worse. But there we go.
|
|
|
Post by cousinlou on Jun 11, 2021 7:53:22 GMT
One of the things I've learned with student behaviour is that if you don't define your expectations in detail, then it is impossible to get students to behave the way you want. So it is necessary to outline behaviour expectation in order to get them to conform to them. Should forums, such as this place, have that? BCB never did that, and nor has Preludin.To a certain extent, one could argue that it's not been that necessary. There has been a hazy, unwritten code of "don't be a twat" over the years which has been mostly adhered to by everyone. People "rub along ok" and don't need guides or rules with sanctions when they break them. But perhaps we do need them. Both BCB and Preludin have them but rather than written down somewhere, they are supposed to be 'understood'. For most they are indeed. Regardless, every now and then a poster pops up that can't help himself. Remember SoT and his creamy globes?? This case seems a little less serious but from what's there to read, Jimmy's posts seem uncalled for and not entirely correct. Whatever, it's a sad day when G looses his cool and feels he needs to write a post like this.
|
|
fonz
god
Posts: 2,567
Member is Online
|
Post by fonz on Jun 11, 2021 9:14:50 GMT
I tuned in yesterday and it seemed like G was posting everywhere in BIG LETTERS, with some random stuff.
Was all that an alias trolling the site?
(I can't believe that G was doing 'internet shouting'. It would seem out of character)
I don't even know if G's post above is real. The stuff quoted doesn't seem all that abusive, but I can believe it would get a bit tedious if you're on the receiving end.
|
|
|
Post by Reactionary Rage on Jun 11, 2021 9:32:18 GMT
We don't need a written code or whatever. There's too much of that nonsense these days and it's no fun at all. I actually miss the more combative jousting element of BCB and find myself sometimes becoming nostalgic for the old days but I understand not everyone feels like that and prefer the new "nice" approach.
If posters wish to apologise then that's up to them and best done in private. If a resolution can't be reached I think people should resolve to move on. We are not all going to get on all the time and we all have posters we like, posters we dislike, posts we think are great, posts we think are stupid, posts that make us punch the air, posts that make us punch the monitor etc. Such is life.
|
|
~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
|
Post by ~ / % ? * on Jun 11, 2021 10:24:45 GMT
I think we need to remember Covid and relative isolation may have a hand in our current dealings and perceptions. Both posters have valid concerns, but no one's village was burned, nothing irreversible was done. In these pandemic times we may be relying on texts, internet forums, instagram, facetime, etc., more than normal, and some formats are more nimble than others. We are also all at different levels of open-ness to new. Sometimes stepping away is good for perspective and a reset. We are a small forum of music fans whose collection of hurts, misunderstandings, and hard opinions may be greater than our actual cd/vinyl collections. Despite being dynamic human beings, on many subjects there might not be much new to be said. Common ground may simply be that behind flat words on a screen, there is flesh and blood there, so peace.
|
|
|
Post by sloopjohnc on Jun 11, 2021 15:46:44 GMT
I missed this entirely, probably because I find bands like Can boring. I'm a bit bewildered why anyone would kick up a fuss about them and make it personal. Who knew a German experimental band could create such drama?
Even Charlie has called me a drama queen in the past over my past self rightious indignations so I'm probably not the best person to comment.
|
|
|
Post by Sneelock on Jun 11, 2021 16:01:58 GMT
well, I am offended and demand an apology.
|
|
toomanyhatz
god
I've met him/her. He/she's great!!
Posts: 3,238
|
Post by toomanyhatz on Jun 11, 2021 18:54:14 GMT
As I've said before, I consider myself really easy to get along with, and I tend to pretty much like everyone. I guess there are some notable exceptions, but very few. I've certainly had my disagreements and battles with folks here, but if I have an established personal relationship with someone, that's what I use as my basis for relating to that person. One of my best friends posts here, and I've probably had more intense musical disagreements with him than almost anyone else. But I know at the end of the day, we're friends.
Point being, (to a lesser degree, because I don't know him quite as well, though we did meet in person once), that's how I feel about G. I remember a very recent post where I made a (mild, to my mind) pointed barb at his taste. The response surprised me a bit. I didn't think it was as worthy of the level of personal affront I felt I was getting back. But I also realize these are stressful times, and I have no idea what's going on in people's personal lives, so my perception is really not that important. One point I do agree with him on - if you've offended someone, the grown-up thing to do is to just apologize rather than lecture them about why they shouldn't be offended. So - if an apology is needed from me, I humbly offer it.
Not sure it's quite so simple this time - LJO or Jimboo or whatever you want to call him - who I have not met and don't really have any kind of personal relationship with outside of here - has a style that's easily misunderstood. I'm really not clear on when he's trying to be funny and when he isn't. When he's being insulting, I'm not even sure I always get the insults. So I prefer to just shrug it off if I'm not sure. He's never 'gotten personal' with me, at least not in a way I recognized as such.
I mean, the post to G is definitely a bit OTT - but to me so is the response.
Anyway, I found this on the Can thread:
I like both these guys and value their posting and am glad (thanks to both of them) things are perking up here a bit.
SO how about we count this (ignoring the 'but' that comes right after) as the apology and move on?
|
|
|
Post by Sneelock on Jun 11, 2021 19:25:34 GMT
this is what Harry Shearer calls "an IF-pology" work's for me.
I love G's posts so I'm glad he's staying. still, I must admit that I was chuckling at some of jimmy's over the top remarks. sometimes it DOES seem like nobody likes much of anything. this is easy to take personal when you like something.
EXAMPLE:
Post: this is my favorite thing in the whole world ever. I play it every day. I played it at my wedding. I want to hear it when I die. Reply: it's a bit shit, isn't it?
I know I rub some people the wrong way sometimes. I try to have fun with it - I hope they are. do your own thing, baby. have a good time. I love it. you hate it. I rock, you suck..
LOL. they used to call them "discussion boards". well, that's how discussions work. just because I call you a big pile of elephant shit doesn't mean you are. it just means I got mad at you and called you names. we can work it out. hopefully it'll look something like fun later.
|
|
|
Post by sloopjohnc on Jun 11, 2021 19:46:57 GMT
well, I am offended and demand an apology. I got your apology right here, buddy.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Jun 11, 2021 19:51:50 GMT
I love G's posts so I'm glad he's staying. still, I must admit that I was chuckling at some of jimmy's over the top remarks. sometimes it DOES seem like nobody likes much of anything. this is easy to take personal when you like something. EXAMPLE: Post: this is my favorite thing in the whole world ever. I play it every day. I played it at my wedding. I want to hear it when I die. Reply: it's a bit shit, isn't it? I know I rub some people the wrong way sometimes. I try to have fun with it - I hope they are. do your own thing, baby. have a good time. I love it. you hate it. I rock, you suck.. LOL. they used to call them "discussion boards". well, that's how discussions work. just because I call you a big pile of elephant shit doesn't mean you are. it just means I got mad at you and called you names. we can work it out. hopefully it'll look something like fun later. I agree with every single word of this. You fucking piece of shit.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Jun 11, 2021 19:52:13 GMT
|
|