Consuming music

[tory]

You'll have to forgive the wandering nature of this topic as I'm currently sitting in a car showroom waiting for my car to be serviced.

There is a narrative within music that it is seen to be a good thing to be 'eclectic' in one's taste. It goes that the wider your listening tastes, the broader your musical breadth and therefore, knowledge. Obviously, pre-internet, this would have been time-consuming and extraordinarily expensive. There was simply no way to do this unless you were pretty much doing it professionally (ie a DJ or reviewer) or you had access to someone's very large music collection.

Now that we have access to such a vast array of possibilities, does that narrative really matter any more? I have found that exposure to everything has probably dulled my senses and delight at new music or at least music I haven't heard before somewhat. I am no longer really energised by things. Maybe it is age, maybe it is a sense of ennui, I don't know. There is a feeling of being a kid in a candy store and yet going back to a mars bar because, well, I know it.

I am still charmed by things - the other day 'There she goes again' came on and I was entranced by the echo used on the refrain, playing it back 5 times in a row.

I guess those of us who refrain from streaming might feel differently and still hunt for physical music with the same delight as they did in their youth. But for this middle-aged digital convert comes a warning of burn-out.

[Crunchy Col]

Well, first off, I've honestly never regarded 'broad-mindedness' - when it comes to musical taste - as necessarily a good thing. In fact it wasn't until I started using message boards that I realised this was a shared sentiment among music fans at all - until then, I'd knocked around with people who were passionate about specific bands or genres, and dismissed anything outside their 'range' - and that always seemed right to me. All to do with a kind of pride, a sign of devotion perhaps. Single-mindedness as a badge of honour.

There's a pervasive (and persuasive!) idea that everything is equal in music, and it should all be given a fair hearing, whether it's Fela Kuti, Nick Drake, the Feelies or Vivaldi. Concepts like inclusivity and diversity carried over from the workplace and society as a whole to the world of culture. But we're talking about tastes here - personal preferences where rationality doesn't play a part. If something sounds like shit to you then it sounds like shit - but you'd be forgiven for thinking it's a crime to even think that!


Anyway now THAT one's out of the way.... I'd agree that the ease of access to every major recording (via Spotify or youtube or whatever) has resulted in a lack of passion, but my question is this: does this happen only to people roughly our age ('cos we're sort of burnt out anyway), or do you see this in young people too?




I like the Mars bar analogy

[Deleted]

Kinda related

[bungo the mungo]

i set up my record player in the front room again after storing it in the spare room to save space. i've been playing a lot of vinyl as a result, and it DOES sound better than streaming, especially the old 60s vinyl. i'm not sure if i'll ever get back into buying the physical format again, but can't deny that i still get some joy from plonking the needle down and hearing all the crackling before a track starts. i still have loads of stuff which isn't available on spotify too. it's been fun listening to that again.

[tory]

I'm not really bothered by all that "getting the record out of the sleeve and hearing the crackle of the needle" ritualistic stuff. I understand why many people take enormous pleasure from it, particularly as it connects with the earliest parts of our memories of music, but personally I've never been fussed. Music to me isn't an object - it's invisible to start with, so the physical aspect of equipment and the media has for me been a hindrance in all honesty. In many the digital dissemination of music is perfect for me - little to no space at all, but maybe that's part and parcel of why I have this ennui with it. I know that the physical media does sound better, particularly with solid state equipment, but I'll take convenience over quality because I don't have the space or the context (it would be impractical for me to listen to music loudly in my house unless no-one was in).

I do wonder if people who grew up with iPods and the like will have the same Proustian rush as we do from vinyl from using a jog wheel or loading up an mp3.

[bungo the mungo]

Aug 27, 2021 11:24:22 GMT tory said:

I'm not really bothered by all that "getting the record out of the sleeve and hearing the crackle of the needle" ritualistic stuff. I understand why many people take enormous pleasure from it, particularly as it connects with the earliest parts of our memories of music, but personally I've never been fussed. Music to me isn't an object - it's invisible to start with, so the physical aspect of equipment and the media has for me been a hindrance in all honesty. In many the digital dissemination of music is perfect for me - little to no space at all, but maybe that's part and parcel of why I have this ennui with it. I know that the physical media does sound better, particularly with solid state equipment, but I'll take convenience over quality because I don't have the space or the context (it would be impractical for me to listen to music loudly in my house unless no-one was in).

I do wonder if people who grew up with iPods and the like will have the same Proustian rush as we do from vinyl from using a jog wheel or loading up an mp3.

i tend to agree, but there is something aesthetically pleasing about a decent record player which makes you savour the experience more.

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2021 10:01:13 GMT Crunchy Col said:

Well, first off, I've honestly never regarded it as a good sign that 'broad-mindedness' - when it comes to musical taste - is necessarily a good thing. In fact it wasn't until I started using message boards that I realised this was a shared sentiment among music fans at all - until then, I'd knocked around with people who were passionate about specific bands or genres, and dismissed anything outside their 'range' - and that always seemed right to me. All to do with a kind of pride, a sign of devotion perhaps. Single-mindedness as a badge of honour.

There's a pervasive (and persuasive!) idea that everything is equal in music, and it should all be given a fair hearing, whether it's Fela Kuti, Nick Drake, the Feelies or Vivaldi. Concepts like inclusivity and diversity carried over from the workplace and society as a whole to the world of culture. But we're talking about tastes here - personal preferences where rationality doesn't play a part. If something sounds like shit to you then it sounds like shit - but you'd be forgiven for thinking it's a crime to even think that!

I know what you're saying, but this is too binary for me. Sticking to one narrow genre just seems unimaginative to me, like going to the same place on holiday all the time. I don't see it as somehow more passionate and real. At the same time I've never felt the need to follow some dutiful path covering the history of music, there's no real sense of discovery or personal thrill in that. I'm an eclecticist who likes to go off the beaten track.These days I don't discover as nearly as many things as I used to though. I'm much more of a casual music fan these days.

[Crunchy Col]

Aug 27, 2021 11:53:08 GMT @madcyril1 said:

Aug 27, 2021 10:01:13 GMT Crunchy Col said:

Well, first off, I've honestly never regarded it as a good sign that 'broad-mindedness' - when it comes to musical taste - is necessarily a good thing. In fact it wasn't until I started using message boards that I realised this was a shared sentiment among music fans at all - until then, I'd knocked around with people who were passionate about specific bands or genres, and dismissed anything outside their 'range' - and that always seemed right to me. All to do with a kind of pride, a sign of devotion perhaps. Single-mindedness as a badge of honour.

There's a pervasive (and persuasive!) idea that everything is equal in music, and it should all be given a fair hearing, whether it's Fela Kuti, Nick Drake, the Feelies or Vivaldi. Concepts like inclusivity and diversity carried over from the workplace and society as a whole to the world of culture. But we're talking about tastes here - personal preferences where rationality doesn't play a part. If something sounds like shit to you then it sounds like shit - but you'd be forgiven for thinking it's a crime to even think that!

I know what you're saying, but this is too binary for me. Sticking to one narrow genre just seems unimaginative to me, like going to the same place on holiday all the time. I don't see it as somehow more passionate and real. 

No, but you make it sound like a choice.

We're drawn to particular styles of music like we're attracted to specific types of people, food or art. It's a natural thing. We shouldn't feel guilty about that - and yet occasionally people will wag their finger in your face for not embracing the whole canon. 

[Crunchy Col]

Always bugged me about message boards, that.

WHAT? you don't like KRAFTWERK?

wow

just wow


shit like that. Fuck off!

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2021 12:21:41 GMT Crunchy Col said:

Aug 27, 2021 11:53:08 GMT @madcyril1 said:

I know what you're saying, but this is too binary for me. Sticking to one narrow genre just seems unimaginative to me, like going to the same place on holiday all the time. I don't see it as somehow more passionate and real. 

No, but you make it sound like a choice.

We're drawn to particular styles of music like we're attracted to specific types of people, food or art. It's a natural thing. We shouldn't feel guilty about that - and yet occasionally people will wag their finger in your face for not embracing the whole canon. 

But you can like a variety of things without feeling the need to like everything.
The way you've put it is too either or for me.

[Reactionary Rage]

Aug 27, 2021 10:01:13 GMT Crunchy Col said:

Well, first off, I've honestly never regarded it as a good sign that 'broad-mindedness' - when it comes to musical taste - is necessarily a good thing. In fact it wasn't until I started using message boards that I realised this was a shared sentiment among music fans at all - until then, I'd knocked around with people who were passionate about specific bands or genres, and dismissed anything outside their 'range' - and that always seemed right to me. All to do with a kind of pride, a sign of devotion perhaps. Single-mindedness as a badge of honour.

There's a pervasive (and persuasive!) idea that everything is equal in music, and it should all be given a fair hearing, whether it's Fela Kuti, Nick Drake, the Feelies or Vivaldi. Concepts like inclusivity and diversity carried over from the workplace and society as a whole to the world of culture. But we're talking about tastes here - personal preferences where rationality doesn't play a part. If something sounds like shit to you then it sounds like shit - but you'd be forgiven for thinking it's a crime to even think that!


Anyway now THAT one's out of the way.... I'd agree that the ease of access to every major recording (via Spotify or youtube or whatever) has resulted in a lack of passion, but my question is this: does this happen only to people roughly our age ('cos we're sort of burnt out anyway), or do you see this in young people too?




I like the Mars bar analogy

I know a fella - friend of a friend - who has very narrow taste...electronica, house, soundtracks, that sorta thing.  He doesn't like the Beatles at all (yeah, one of Those types) but if he ever recommended summat or posted a tune on Facebook it was nearly always good, or at least worth hearing.  He was very selective but reliable like that.  

It's seen as a virtue isn't it - you are open minded, respectful, eclectic etc - and there is a crossover with a general worldview too.  But it's bollocks.  You can be eclectic, and most of us here are by any real standards but we prefer certain genres and bands to others and we also believe that certain things are superior to others things, not just in music but in film and life too.  As I get older I become more selective in my listening habits but when I was younger I definitely had an approach that saw some kind of virtue in giving everything a try.  At this juncture I don't really see any point in trying to get into country music for example.  Why waste my time and energy when I know the rewards will be limited?  I think being more selective and listening to a narrower but more pleasing range is better because it's less....academic, like fucking homework.

The lack of passion is an age thing primarily.  We need to accept that music will never have the same impact it did when we were 16 but I also feel a degree of burn out through technology and exposure hence why I am more selective in my approach too.  

From bits and pieces I read and from talking to YOUNG PEOPLE I don't think music does mean as much or have the same impact as it does, in the same way that movies don't either.  It's an Old World thing.  They have become jingles and background soundtracks, playlists to work out to down the gym.

[Half Machine Lipschitz]

I'm with G, but I will add that, as a musician, I couldn't imagine limiting myself to just one or two genres or a handful of bands. For me there's tremendous value in listening to as much different stuff as possible and getting ideas and inspiration from it. Streaming has been a godsend in that regard.

I think I'm pretty much over the physical aspect of music collecting - I buy only a small handful of records per year these days, mostly from re-issue labels who send emails hyping their latest release, most of which I'll listen to a sample of and then decide if the whole package is worth the dough.

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2021 12:42:01 GMT Reactionary Rage said:

We need to accept that music will never have the same impact it did when we were 16

I'm happy to accept that..but I'd like it to have the same impact on me as it did at 46!

[Crunchy Col]

I still get a huge kick out of old favourites, especially if I haven't heard them for a while. The thrill hasn't gone. But it's unlikely to come from a new source.

[tory]

I think that the general sense of decline in terms of quality, particularly with regard to music that I like, doesn't help.

For example, we all subscribe to the notion that pop music isn't what it was. Jazz is caught in a paralysis over the fact that all the greats are long gone and probably won't be replaced. Classical music by its very definition pretty much looks backwards. Innovation and "new sounds" are pretty much unheard of. Yes, great songs are still written and great pop music still made, but anyone over the age of 40 would probably agree that the golden age has passed. That doesn't matter per se I guess.

My long-winded point is that when you sense you are in the middle of a movement, I think that itself is hugely energising in terms of listening to and consuming music. I missed Punk etc, but I was lucky enough (for me I guess) to be 20 or so when Techno was at its very best, from around 1993 to 1996. Great records were literally coming out every week in droves and I'd buy around 5-10 records a week or so.