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Post by Reactionary Rage on Sept 16, 2021 15:46:23 GMT
It's not romanticising the past to recognise this and prefer David Niven or Richard Burton over Lady Gaga wearing half a pound of sausages on her head as a fucking crown you know? The fact that you've chosen Niven and Burton over a handful of other also-rans from back in the day actually IS romanticising the past! that's what you're doing by being selective in your examples. Can't you see that? Mocking Lady G too - cheap shot. Poor show, Dougie. I'm not necessarily saying that celebrities today are as interesting as those in the past - but I'm not ready to get behind the idea that famous people today aren't as interesting as famous people from 50 years ago either - because that's patent bollocks, obviously. Lazy thinking, the sort of shit you get from TV punters like Piers Morgan. Well you measure things by the best, not the also rans. Put forward the modern day equivalents you know? How many modern actors can regale us with similar stories and anecdotes with the same level of charm and charisma? It's not patent bollocks but I would push the dividing line back a bit to those stars who emerged from, roughly, the 30s/40s to the 50s/60s as I think celebrities became more boring after that, less charismatic. It's partly because celebrity was more limited back then and focused on people in certain professions that had cultural reach like films and music when making it in those professions necessarily required a degree of character, talent and star quality that has been lessened over the years as these mediums have depreciated in cultural impact. I'm reminded of a quote from Orson Welles about the likes of Greta Garbo and it's along the lines of....when being something (a movie star) is the greatest thing in the world it attracts great characters, people with real presence, star quality hence why those people were special (not necessarily more talented mind). A similar thing happened with rock n roll and popular music hence why yer Little Richards and John Lennon's were more interesting as people and larger as characters than modern pop stars because being a rock n roll star is no longer the greatest thing in the world. I mean what life has Gaga had? She did the usual thing these days: went to school, went to some performing arts college and then went pro, bypassing all the interesting stuff that gives people stories. Earlier generations often had different paths and more hardships too hence....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 15:54:16 GMT
There's also a thing of most modern actors/musicians aren't happy with being famous for their chosen profession, they have to push the boat out and do/say stupid shite. Like dress up in a dress of meat. It's like there's not enough 'famous' for them to be.
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Post by sloopjohnc on Sept 16, 2021 17:59:00 GMT
The fact that you've chosen Niven and Burton over a handful of other also-rans from back in the day actually IS romanticising the past! that's what you're doing by being selective in your examples. Can't you see that? Mocking Lady G too - cheap shot. Poor show, Dougie. I'm not necessarily saying that celebrities today are as interesting as those in the past - but I'm not ready to get behind the idea that famous people today aren't as interesting as famous people from 50 years ago either - because that's patent bollocks, obviously. Lazy thinking, the sort of shit you get from TV punters like Piers Morgan. Well you measure things by the best, not the also rans. Put forward the modern day equivalents you know? How many modern actors can regale us with similar stories and anecdotes with the same level of charm and charisma? It's not patent bollocks but I would push the dividing line back a bit to those stars who emerged from, roughly, the 30s/40s to the 50s/60s as I think celebrities became more boring after that, less charismatic. It's partly because celebrity was more limited back then and focused on people in certain professions that had cultural reach like films and music when making it in those professions necessarily required a degree of character, talent and star quality that has been lessened over the years as these mediums have depreciated in cultural impact. I'm reminded of a quote from Orson Welles about the likes of Greta Garbo and it's along the lines of....when being something (a movie star) is the greatest thing in the world it attracts great characters, people with real presence, star quality hence why those people were special (not necessarily more talented mind). A similar thing happened with rock n roll and popular music hence why yer Little Richards and John Lennon's were more interesting as people and larger as characters than modern pop stars because being a rock n roll star is no longer the greatest thing in the world. I mean what life has Gaga had? She did the usual thing these days: went to school, went to some performing arts college and then went pro, bypassing all the interesting stuff that gives people stories. Earlier generations often had different paths and more hardships too hence.... Well, in the past, a lot of Hollywood stars started in vaudeville or in the theater doing a multitude of things. You probably had more multi-talented folks, that's for sure. I watched an old movie on Turner Movie Classics, last night, the Strawberry Blonde with Cagney, DeHavilland and one of Rita Hayworth's breakout performances. I didn't know this, but her dad was a dance teacher who took the family from NYC to LA and a talent scout spotted her in one of her dad's dance revues in Tijuana during prohibition. They signed her at 15 to a contract and her first several films was as a dancer, billed under her real name, Margarita Carmen Cansino. Columbia Pictures saw something in her, groomed her, did electralysis, told her to lose weight, changed her name close to her Irish mother's name of Halworth to Hayworth, and bang: Rita Hayworth. I think the old stories are probably more interesting.
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Post by Half Machine Lipschitz on Sept 16, 2021 18:12:50 GMT
Yeah, but we don't want to hear you tell it, Sloop!
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Post by Crunchy Col on Sept 16, 2021 18:20:40 GMT
Richard Burton was a raging bore, by the way.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 18:28:30 GMT
Richard Burton was a raging whore, by the way. No bother to him.
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Post by DarknessFish on Sept 16, 2021 20:19:46 GMT
What are you expecting from your celebrities? I don't know why Niven and Burton are being held aloft, who here used to beg to be allowed to stay up to watch Parky because David Niven was on?
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Post by Half Machine Lipschitz on Sept 16, 2021 20:24:30 GMT
I can get great stories from my friends any time I want. I want celebrities to stuff their mouths with as many hotdogs as they possibly can.
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Post by clive gash on Sept 16, 2021 20:30:20 GMT
I want my celebrities to vote for me in the cup.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 20:33:27 GMT
What are you expecting from your celebrities? I don't know why Niven and Burton are being held aloft, who here used to beg to be allowed to stay up to watch Parky because David Niven was on? His books remembering old Hollywood, The Moon's a Balloon and er...the other one, are an absolute delight. Warm, funny and full of charm. I think they've become slightly forgotten these days, but if anyone hasn't read them then I can't recommend them enough.
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Sept 16, 2021 21:01:53 GMT
What are you expecting from your celebrities? I don't know why Niven and Burton are being held aloft, who here used to beg to be allowed to stay up to watch Parky because David Niven was on? His books remembering old Hollywood, The Moon's a Balloon and er...the other one, are an absolute delight. Warm, funny and full of charm. I think they've become slightly forgotten these days, but if anyone hasn't read them then I can't recommend them enough. Bring on the Empty Horses . I agree. A great raconteur and some good stories - far better value than that Ustinov twit.
And Fish, I was a big boy so didn't have to get permission to stay up , but I made a point of watching Parky if he was on. It wasn't so much because he was a celeb, it was because he was funny, a real performer. Not to be confused with the twittish characters he often played int he later stages of his career.
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Post by DarknessFish on Sept 16, 2021 21:02:20 GMT
What are you expecting from your celebrities? I don't know why Niven and Burton are being held aloft, who here used to beg to be allowed to stay up to watch Parky because David Niven was on? His books remembering old Hollywood, The Moon's a Balloon and er...the other one, are an absolute delight. Warm, funny and full of charm. I think they've become slightly forgotten these days, but if anyone hasn't read them then I can't recommend them enough. I'll take your word on it, I might even seek one out. But that's pretty niche, I was looking more for something more general and sweeping that would move beyond rose-tinted nostalgia specs. We're there many characters back then that you'd genuinely look forward to seeing, and have those expectations met?
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Post by DarknessFish on Sept 16, 2021 21:03:56 GMT
His books remembering old Hollywood, The Moon's a Balloon and er...the other one, are an absolute delight. Warm, funny and full of charm. I think they've become slightly forgotten these days, but if anyone hasn't read them then I can't recommend them enough. Bring on the Empty Horses . I agree. A great raconteur and some good stories - far better value than that Ustinov twit.
And Fish, I was a big boy so didn't have to get permission to stay up , but I made a point of watching Parky if he was on. It wasn't so much because he was a celeb, it was because he was funny, a real performer. Not to be confused with the twittish characters he often played int he later stages of his career.
Oi! Literally just trampled all over my reply to G there. Bah.
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Sept 16, 2021 21:07:15 GMT
His books remembering old Hollywood, The Moon's a Balloon and er...the other one, are an absolute delight. Warm, funny and full of charm. I think they've become slightly forgotten these days, but if anyone hasn't read them then I can't recommend them enough. I'll take your word on it, I might even seek one out. But that's pretty niche, I was looking more for something more general and sweeping that would move beyond rose-tinted nostalgia specs. We're there many characters back then that you'd genuinely look forward to seeing, and have those expectations met? Welles, Niven, Lauren Bacall, Billy Connolly, Muhammad Ali, Tommy Cooper, Woody Allen, Joyce Grenfell... others. Ustinov and Oliver Reed I could always have done without.
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Sept 16, 2021 21:08:30 GMT
Bring on the Empty Horses . I agree. A great raconteur and some good stories - far better value than that Ustinov twit.
And Fish, I was a big boy so didn't have to get permission to stay up , but I made a point of watching Parky if he was on. It wasn't so much because he was a celeb, it was because he was funny, a real performer. Not to be confused with the twittish characters he often played int he later stages of his career.
Oi! Literally just trampled all over my reply to G there. Bah. 'Literally?'
Soz.
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