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Post by cousinlou on Nov 10, 2021 12:58:06 GMT
There seems to be a belief that having a child is almost a human right for some people. There is certainly a belief that everyone who's born with a 'defect' should be helped to eliminate their disadvantages. I don't see a fundamental difference between the IVF treatments and getting people prescription glasses, a wheelchair, a new hip, permanent care etc etc. As a man I would opt for adoption I think but I can also see that it is different for some to have their 'own' child.
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Post by DarknessFish on Nov 10, 2021 13:06:15 GMT
Adoption can be problematic though, it can be a hell of a process to be put through. Also, there's a good chance (especially if you're not particularly young) that with adoption you're not gifted with a baby, but with a child that comes with a lot of baked-in issues and problems. And if you're adopting, you also are likely new to the parenting game. It's often a recipe for disaster.
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Post by cousinlou on Nov 10, 2021 13:24:28 GMT
Adoption can be problematic though, it can be a hell of a process to be put through. Also, there's a good chance (especially if you're not particularly young) that with adoption you're not gifted with a baby, but with a child that comes with a lot of baked-in issues and problems. And if you're adopting, you also are likely new to the parenting game. It's often a recipe for disaster. Yes, well everyone with children has at one point come new to the parenting game. It is a very complicated issue and I see the problems around adoption but likewise, an IVF solution can be equally challenging.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Nov 10, 2021 14:02:51 GMT
There seems to be a belief that having a child is almost a human right for some people. There is certainly a belief that everyone who's born with a 'defect' should be helped to eliminate their disadvantages. I don't see a fundamental difference between the IVF treatments and getting people prescription glasses, a wheelchair, a new hip, permanent care etc etc. As a man I would opt for adoption I think but I can also see that it is different for some to have their 'own' child. Being a lesbian couple is not a defect though. Fertility in women is affected by various factors: age, weight, health, sexual history etc can all reduce the likelihood of pregnancy. Not to mention male fertility issues as well of course. That's not defects. It's not a blocked fallopian tube. I don't think comparing that to dodgy eyesight that means that someone requires glasses in order just to function (I'm as blind as a bat and would be lost without mine) is quite same thing. I am not unsympathetic to childless couples of course and I understand that for some woman not having a kid can have a significant psychological impact on their mental health but I am not comfortable with the state paying for IVF. Especially considering the success rates for treatment: the average success rate is apparently 25% but obviously that changes due to age groups and other factors.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Nov 10, 2021 14:20:06 GMT
Is there any positive statistics for being brought up with two parents? Asking as someone brought up by a single parent. There have been studies that back this up. Children from two parent families do better in life and children raised by biological parents do the best apparently. I mean it makes sense and you can see this in the real world.
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Post by blue on Nov 10, 2021 14:43:33 GMT
Lesbian couples only have co-parental rights via IA/IVF. That's really the main issue here.
It's easy to say why not adopt or foster, but as said that brings a different set of challenges and circumstances, and it's a tad ironic that the onus is on gay couples to sort out the consequences of bad straight parenting.
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Post by cousinlou on Nov 10, 2021 16:08:35 GMT
There is certainly a belief that everyone who's born with a 'defect' should be helped to eliminate their disadvantages. I don't see a fundamental difference between the IVF treatments and getting people prescription glasses, a wheelchair, a new hip, permanent care etc etc. As a man I would opt for adoption I think but I can also see that it is different for some to have their 'own' child. Being a lesbian couple is not a defect though. Fertility in women is affected by various factors: age, weight, health, sexual history etc can all reduce the likelihood of pregnancy. Not to mention male fertility issues as well of course. That's not defects. It's not a blocked fallopian tube. I don't think comparing that to dodgy eyesight that means that someone requires glasses in order just to function (I'm as blind as a bat and would be lost without mine) is quite same thing. I am not unsympathetic to childless couples of course and I understand that for some woman not having a kid can have a significant psychological impact on their mental health but I am not comfortable with the state paying for IVF. Especially considering the success rates for treatment: the average success rate is apparently 25% but obviously that changes due to age groups and other factors. Of course not!! I was referring to the infertility. ps My daughter is one, and has a child.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Nov 10, 2021 17:21:48 GMT
I wonder (in their case) why adoption is not considered. Well, this is true. It is exceptionally complex. My wife has a friend who is 45, single, and feels that she "has to have" a baby. I'm not a woman, so I have no real idea beyond a sort of vague empathy with the physicality of that emotion that must have been with her for god knows how long. When you are surrounded by people that have been "successful" in corresponding to the archetype of "being a mum" that so many women are (I guess it's the female equivalent of the "successful man"), then that can play heavily on you, perhaps forever. She has now had a baby, but is still single and has entered some sort of complex situation with a gay friend who has agreed to be a "sort of father". The conservative in me baulks at this sort of tenuous set up. Is he a father or not? How will the child grow up without the person that is their father? I don't think it is terrible to ask these sorts of questions and worry. Of course that doesn't impinge on the fact that huge numbers of people bring up children single-handedly and successfully too as the stigma of single parenthood lessens, but when you see negative statistics on the outcomes of single parenthood, you worry too. A gay mate announced to the lass and I a while back that he was donating sperm to a female friend of his; 43 and single. I can't lie, I was like wtf man?! The plan was to just donate sperm and for him not to be the Father and have no involvement at all. I raised concerns and said I thought the lass was being selfish really which didn't go down to well. A little while later he was going on holiday with a gay mate to some Spanish shag resort near Barcelona and right before he leaves she phones him asking him to conserve his sperm and not shag anybody. Well, you can guess that didn't go down too well. I think there's been a couple of other issues and things have gone a bit sour ken.
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Post by sloopjohnc on Nov 10, 2021 21:34:53 GMT
I hear David Crosby is always available.
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