wobblie
god
Just a prick out to make a name for himself.
Posts: 1,230
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Post by wobblie on Dec 20, 2021 9:57:57 GMT
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Post by tory on Dec 20, 2021 10:36:37 GMT
What is clear to me is that societies based on western concepts of freedom, individualism and liberty struggle with the notion of living in close confines with one another unless there is a certain amount of prosperity. That's why housing people in tower blocks and the like is a disaster. It seems to work in Asia, or at least that there don't seem to be as many issues with it. Perhaps that's down to the fact that Asian societies, as a whole, are far more hierarchical at their foundation than ours.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 10:57:38 GMT
I'd like to see what people suggest for "fixing" homelessness. I'm sure there are lots of suggestions out there if you look. Let's be clear about this. There is nothing "natural" about homelessness. It is a choice that governments have made over the last 30 to 40 years. The homeless are the collateral damage from market driven, neo liberal policies that prioritise housing being for profit rather than need.
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 20, 2021 12:22:12 GMT
What is clear to me is that societies based on western concepts of freedom, individualism and liberty struggle with the notion of living in close confines with one another unless there is a certain amount of prosperity. That's why housing people in tower blocks and the like is a disaster. It seems to work in Asia, or at least that there don't seem to be as many issues with it. Perhaps that's down to the fact that Asian societies, as a whole, are far more hierarchical at their foundation than ours. More importantly they tend to be collectivist rather than individualistic, but even that is a bit of a canard to dealing with homelessness. It just means one has to hone the solution to the situation.
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Post by cousinlou on Dec 20, 2021 13:35:45 GMT
I'd like to see what people suggest for "fixing" homelessness. I'm sure there are lots of suggestions out there if you look. Let's be clear about this. There is nothing "natural" about homelessness. It is a choice that governments have made over the last 30 to 40 years. The homeless are the collateral damage from market drive, neo liberal policies that prioritise housing being for profit rather than need. I fully agree, there are plenty of possible solutions. At the same time however, we must face the reality that few of those are carried by people that have enough cloud to make an impact of any material consequence.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 13:39:15 GMT
I'm sure there are lots of suggestions out there if you look. Let's be clear about this. There is nothing "natural" about homelessness. It is a choice that governments have made over the last 30 to 40 years. The homeless are the collateral damage from market drive, neo liberal policies that prioritise housing being for profit rather than need. I fully agree, there are plenty of possible solutions. At the same time however, we must face the reality that few of those are carried by people that have enough cloud to make an impact of any material consequence. Yeah, implementing these things is a different matter.
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wobblie
god
Just a prick out to make a name for himself.
Posts: 1,230
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Post by wobblie on Dec 20, 2021 13:55:11 GMT
Prioritizing private property over life is so thoroughly ingrained in our psyche.
My family has owned a small piece of property for most of my life, but that's because my parents worked their ass off to pay for it. It may not be much in the grand scheme of things, but I wouldn't like for a bunch of junkies to suddenly appear in our garden with pup tents.
Do I feel I actually own this piece of land? Of course not, I am merely a steward. I have a great respect for it. Does this make me capitalist scum? Well, perhaps.
When there are so many vacant homes & buildings in a city, and when thousands don't have a place to stay, I feel this a completely different scenario. Banks don't have any sentimental feelings about their property.
I can't even imagine being able to afford to live in California. You could have a massive spread here for what one of those shitty houses in Oakland are going for.
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Post by bungo the mungo on Dec 20, 2021 14:17:31 GMT
is there anyway we can block tory for 48 hours while he reconsiders?
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Post by Reasonable good Nick on Dec 20, 2021 14:25:27 GMT
I can't even imagine being able to afford to live in California. You could have a massive spread here for what one of those shitty houses in Oakland are going for. It's like that here with London. Cath and I own a three bedroom late Victorian town house with a reasonably-sized back garden in an average suburb of Manchester, which is now probably the second city of the UK. It wasn't cheap, but the price wasn't mad, off-the-scale either. To buy the same property in London we would probably be paying three or four times the price here, possibly getting towards a million pounds in some areas. I don't know how younger people with normal jobs live in London. Probably a lot of them have to share very cramped flats and similar.
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 20, 2021 16:17:32 GMT
From my experience, I think it helps to identify and humanize the population at risk of/for homelessness:
Veterans/PTSD Runaways from abusive situations (LGBTQI youth, young women, etc.,) recently jobless children in groups/tribes with older child addicted single parent with one or more child(ren)(usually female led) immigrants trafficked sex workers PTSD/trauma sufferers mentally ill (schizophrenia, dissociative, cognitive impairment, someone experiencing intense mania, or deep depression, etc.,) recently hit by catastrophic loss (main bread winner dies, extensive medical bills, loss of house/job, illness, natural catastrophes, etc.,) victims of discrimination/racism (gender, race, ethnic, etc.,) etc.,etc.,
...and in the end, there for the grace of God go any of us, none of us is immune
Depending on an area/region/city/nation, etc., there may or may not be specific programs to deal with people in their situations
Then comes levels of aptitude and success "Managing the Real World" skills such as bill paying, having/getting/maintaining a job, transportation, savings, etc.,
Now many of us have varying degrees of success here, and we all know people who not being homeless have gotten into boondoggles here. So, a misstep here can roll against one quite quickly, which then can effect success of recovery, establishing safety/well being.
On top of managing "Real world" tasks, if one gets into a helping program there are concurrent tasks that must be done there: applying, interviewing, finishing, submitting paperwork, delivering/access proof, following up, applying at 2nd, 3rd, 4th agencies, etc.,
So this can get overwhelming quite quickly. Thus it isn't simple, the clients aren't lazy, stupid, etc., It's a person going through a crisis, or a series of crisis that needs guidance and help. Taken as a huge monolith it looks impossible, seen as an individual personal situation one by one it is solvable.
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Post by sloopjohnc on Dec 20, 2021 17:55:06 GMT
I saw a stat in the NY Times yesterday that 1 in 100 people in San Francisco are homeless.
Where I live now in Eugene, OR, it's a terrible problem. One of the downtown parks is filled with hundreds of tents and the river walk along the Willamette is dotted with tents also.
You can't ride a bike downtown because it will be stolen while you're inside a store and is used as currency among the homeless.
From July of this year in Eugene Register/Guard, the local paper:
In 2019, Eugene had the highest homelessness rate of any city in the entire country. In a supposedly progressive city — without the insane housing prices of New York or Los Angeles — thousands weather the elements on our streets.
Since then, homelessness in Lane County has skyrocketed by about 50% to 3,245 people actively experiencing homelessness, the Register-Guard reported. As a UO student, this increase is hard to miss. Overcrowded tent communities greet me on my way to work. Children ask me for money on the street. And now that the federal eviction moratorium is set to end on August 1, experts warn that thousands more could lose their housing.
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wobblie
god
Just a prick out to make a name for himself.
Posts: 1,230
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Post by wobblie on Dec 20, 2021 18:25:44 GMT
I saw a stat in the NY Times yesterday that 1 in 100 people in San Francisco are homeless. Where I live now in Eugene, OR, it's a terrible problem. One of the downtown parks is filled with hundreds of tents and the river walk along the Willamette is dotted with tents also. You can't ride a bike downtown because it will be stolen while you're inside a store and is used as currency among the homeless. From July of this year in Eugene Register/Guard, the local paper: In 2019, Eugene had the highest homelessness rate of any city in the entire country. In a supposedly progressive city — without the insane housing prices of New York or Los Angeles — thousands weather the elements on our streets. Since then, homelessness in Lane County has skyrocketed by about 50% to 3,245 people actively experiencing homelessness, the Register-Guard reported. As a UO student, this increase is hard to miss. Overcrowded tent communities greet me on my way to work. Children ask me for money on the street. And now that the federal eviction moratorium is set to end on August 1, experts warn that thousands more could lose their housing. Why Eugene, though? Are most of these people from out of state? Seems like an awful place to live outdoors. BTW, I remember you posting a picture of a very beautiful house your dad built. Is that still in your family?
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Post by tory on Dec 20, 2021 19:43:11 GMT
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 20, 2021 19:49:09 GMT
It is really no different than is what is going on allover the US in bigger and smaller cities. There does seem to be some agenda possibly banging on about San Fran I guess, a city of under a million just like Boston, Baltimore, Seattle, Portland, etc., having the same problems. Maybe the Guardian and others need to realize the US is larger than just San Fran and NYC.
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Post by souphound on Dec 20, 2021 20:02:18 GMT
Tent cities are an "interesting" side of things. Living in a fairly northern city, Montreal, there is quite a jump from Summer to Winter especcially in terms of weather/temperature. Over the last few years, we have seen the rapid growth of tent gatherings around the city. But when the Fall hits, these tenements are taken down and the people there told to seek refuge where available. The city just doesnot wantto have people dying of exposure on its land, so, oost.
I imagine that for some, they get used to survivable conditions throughout the Spring and Summer and are totally unprepared for the Wintyer months ("I'll never get there", I'm fine this way, why change?", etc.). Horrible.
I've heard of people who commit crimes for the only purpose of getting caught and spending a few cold monthson the inside. For real.
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