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Post by Stacy Heydon on Feb 23, 2023 19:09:31 GMT
About the only thing I can think of is the way we consume has changed quite a bit (and was accelerated by lockdown of course) with far more online home deliveries and so on. But that's not really to do with creativity or self expression. It'll be pretty sad if in many years to come when we define the teens and twenties that 'getting a deliveroo pizza' is the best we can come up with.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Feb 23, 2023 19:11:54 GMT
Not convinced by that. I'd need to see a number of examples to be persuaded. Not interested in persuading you, G, just telling you how I see it. Everybody's right, and everybody's wrong, about everything. Everybody includes me, of course.
If you're as old and out of touch (to use your reasoning) as you say, you wouldn't be able to recognise it even if it were true, so it's not really an argument we can use.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Feb 23, 2023 19:17:10 GMT
I should point out that I'm very much talking of the West here. I don't know enough about African, South East Asia or South American countries to apply it to them.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Feb 23, 2023 19:21:47 GMT
I keep saying it, we are in decline as a civilisation. Standards are dropping, mediocrity is being elevated. There is decay all around us.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Feb 23, 2023 19:28:58 GMT
I keep saying it, we are in decline as a civilisation. Standards are dropping, mediocrity is being elevated. There is decay all around us. I don't know about that so much, science continues to progress for example. But culturally I think we're in an entropic state.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Feb 23, 2023 19:34:43 GMT
I keep saying it, we are in decline as a civilisation. Standards are dropping, mediocrity is being elevated. There is decay all around us. I don't know about that so much, science continues to progress for example. But culturally I think we're in an entropic state. Science and tech will improve but at what cost? Think about what social media for example has done to our society. It's more than just culture though. It's day to day things too.
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toomanyhatz
god
I've met him/her. He/she's great!!
Posts: 3,242
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Post by toomanyhatz on Feb 23, 2023 19:41:39 GMT
cinema it really feels like an art form is withering on the vine and dying before our eyes. Which sounds melodramatic but there you go. I don't think the kids are into cinema these days and some of the younger ones I've met don't appear to even understand it as an art form at all. It might as well be bleeding opera to them. Could not disagree more. It's never been a field where the youth of its creator was that essential to their creation in the same way as music. I think cinema's just getting started. There are as many cinematic geniuses as there ever were. The main differences are: 1) we truly have an international perspective now - more women directors, more non-white actors playing non-white parts. The people who where excluded from the 'Hollywood system' are no longer being excluded. I certainly would not want to be without the voices of Spike Lee, Jane Campion, Gilluermo Del Toro, etc. - all of whom are alive and working and would not have been given the same chance to succeed 40 years ago. If you want to blame for that one, have at it. You're welcome. 2) We have the old technology AND the new technology. The possibilities have been expanded. Yes, there is a disadvantage to it being TOO easy, but our culture is still producing people that are attracted to working with an actual thing that they can feel as opposed to a digital field. I have not ever gotten to all the movies I wanted to see that came out in a given year, and I still haven't caught up. And I consider myself to be someone 'into cinema.' It's not withering at all. It's growing, expanding, and still producing as much good art as ever. Possibly more.
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Post by fonz on Feb 23, 2023 19:41:58 GMT
Social media is way way way more pervasive and ubiquitous since the iPhone/ tablet revolution Not new exactly though is it. I’d argue that the absolute ubiquity of it is. The first iPhone came out in 08, and that was a major catalyst for what we see today. I think the first iPad was 2010. They literally didn’t exist before then…
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Post by fonz on Feb 23, 2023 19:50:27 GMT
Not new exactly though is it. I’d argue that the absolute ubiquity of it is. The first iPhone came out in 08, and that was a major catalyst for what we see today. I think the first iPad was 2010. They literally didn’t exist before then… And, I’d add FaceTime /Zoom/ videoconferencing to the mix as well.
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Post by Half Machine Lipschitz on Feb 23, 2023 19:56:56 GMT
More the decline of strong visual styles I'd say. John gave the example of clothes, but he could equally have said buildings, sofas or cars. Yeah, there's been some kind of stagnation or something. Homogeneity, lack of diversity. I don't know. It's fucking depressing. I still get a real thrill seeing someone with real individual style just being out and about doing their thing. Even if they look ridiculous I'm glad they're there.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Feb 23, 2023 20:07:53 GMT
cinema it really feels like an art form is withering on the vine and dying before our eyes. Which sounds melodramatic but there you go. I don't think the kids are into cinema these days and some of the younger ones I've met don't appear to even understand it as an art form at all. It might as well be bleeding opera to them. Could not disagree more. It's never been a field where the youth of its creator was that essential to their creation in the same way as music. I think cinema's just getting started. There are as many cinematic geniuses as there ever were. The main differences are: 1) we truly have an international perspective now - more women directors, more non-white actors playing non-white parts. The people who where excluded from the 'Hollywood system' are no longer being excluded. I certainly would not want to be without the voices of Spike Lee, Jane Campion, Gilluermo Del Toro, etc. - all of whom are alive and working and would not have been given the same chance to succeed 40 years ago. If you want to blame for that one, have at it. You're welcome. I have not ever gotten to all the movies I wanted to see that came out in a given year, and I still haven't caught up. And I consider myself to be someone 'into cinema.' It's not withering at all. It's growing, expanding, and still producing as much good art as ever. Possibly more. Name all these cinematic geniuses. We had an international perspective decades ago. All the American directors who appeared in the 70s were well aware of their Fellini's and their Kurosawa's and world cinema was discussed and analysed in the West. The decline of art house cinema's and the rise of the multiplexes is a real thing (as is the decline in cinema numbers post covid); as is the domination of TV over the collective imagination of younger generations. I see this myself in younger people. They have no interest in the cinema we connect with. To create geniuses the medium has to have a cultural influence and power that attracts great artists like moths to a flame. It's why pop and rock produced these great artists decades ago because it was The New Thing that attracted all the young talent. Cinema did something similar prior to that too. Cinema has no such place in our culture anymore and nor does popular music. This is part of the reason why both have declined. And the fact that Hollywood is more diverse in your opinion and we have the careers of Spike Lee and Del Toro is not the argument you think it is.
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Post by oh oooh on Feb 23, 2023 20:27:20 GMT
I keep saying it, we are in decline as a civilisation. Standards are dropping, mediocrity is being elevated. There is decay all around us. I really wish you'd stop with this nonsense.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Feb 23, 2023 20:33:22 GMT
I keep saying it, we are in decline as a civilisation. Standards are dropping, mediocrity is being elevated. There is decay all around us. I really wish you'd stop with this nonsense. No. The West has been in decline for decades in many ways and you can see it all over the place, from culture to politics to education to civil behaviour. That doesn't mean I don't recognise empirical improvements...life expectancy, living standards, science and tech with obvious reservations but there is something quite wrong too and I don't like the direction of travel. There are always life cycles, John. We are in late stage.
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Post by oh oooh on Feb 23, 2023 20:52:09 GMT
So we're living through a kind of cultural low point?
I dunno. Maybe. You can't really assess these things until later. The great stuff survives, of course. That's true of the past as well. We had enormous quantities of SHITE in the 70s. It just doesn't live on - in people's memories, in physical forms.
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toomanyhatz
god
I've met him/her. He/she's great!!
Posts: 3,242
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Post by toomanyhatz on Feb 23, 2023 21:00:20 GMT
Just for the record, I do agree fully with this part. But I also think TV has improved, or at least expanded.
As far as geniuses, I already named three. I think Tarantino and Lynch and a lot of others still have the maverick nature of a Hitch or a Ford, though they may not produce as much and have more failures. I think animation is better than ever. There are movies from every country now, not just the west.
Will it be delivered differently? Will more be watched on a private screen at home? Absolutely. Is there a shortage of good, original films? Not that I've seen.
Maybe it will produce a Wells-level genius and maybe it won't. But I'm not anywhere near as worried about the future of film as I am the future of music.
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