loveless
god
Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
Posts: 2,815
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Post by loveless on Jul 20, 2023 14:41:18 GMT
I can't recall any person I ever heard derisively using the phrase "basket weaving degrees" not being a total cock.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 20, 2023 14:42:31 GMT
I went to Wolverhampton Polytechnic and came out with a third-class BA Honours degree. It doesn't get much lower than that, in terms of quality of tertiary certification. We used to joke about wiping our arses on the certificates. I wanted to go to university to get away from Whitehaven, really. To live life in a bigger city, to meet people, to have greater access to culture. I'd had a taste of it already and I liked it. I was very conscious that those were my reasons, and I wasn't especially concerned even about what course I'd study. Wherever would take me. So I ended up ringing around, and was finally accepted on a course to study Economics and German at one of the UK's most Mickey Mouse institutions. And I was a genuinely terrible student - I missed lectures all the time, was a lazy, messy fucker and I drank way too much. Nonetheless it was a great experience in many ways. Only a few years later students had it much harder in terms of grants and funding - but in the late 80s and early 90s, we still got LEA cheques every semester, beer in the SU bar was subsidised, and the banks would give us free overdrafts. The money ran out a few weeks into term (unless you locked yourself in your dorm and lived on crisps), but there were (mostly legal) ways to cope. What made those three years especially worthwhile in a practical sense was the six-month study period in Germany (I was an Erasmus student). We got extra funding for that. The great thing was that nobody really checked what we were up to once we were over there, and we quickly sussed this out and stopped going to lectures (which were ridiculously early in the day AND incomprehensible to us anyway). The whole business of study was very much secondary to fully experiencing life in a foreign country for the first time- I mean, of COURSE it was! So we had the funds and we had the time to have fun, to socialise, even to travel a bit. It opened up doors for sure, and planted the idea of teaching English in my head (at least it seems so, in hindsight). You're basically describing a gravy train though. Essentially a subsidised piss up for young people to arse about. I mean, yeah, I'm sure it was fun and I had some of that fun too but with hindsight do you not think it's a bit of a joke? I mean what should higher education be about? What's the point?
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 20, 2023 14:48:31 GMT
I am saying they have expanded past the point of absurdity where there are too many degrees that are either of no value in the marketplace and/or pseudo academic. It's a waste of everybody's time. They've been that way for as long as I can remember - it's not a new thing. I recall people speaking mockingly of 'basket weaving degrees' and such when I was a kid in the 70's. I'm sure it happened much earlier than that. And they had a point. If people want to do a "basket weaving degree" then they should pay for it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2023 14:52:10 GMT
I wish i did that travelling malarkey before or after uni. I know i could still do it now, but it would be with less energy and enthusiasm. Buy fewer suits and cars. And live and look like a common person.............how dare you!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2023 14:54:48 GMT
It is a bit messed up now in terms of degrees. I'm pretty sure there are/were degrees in Madonna and beyonce. All joking aside what can you get with that? At a stretch it might help you as a music manager and how to launch your client, if you're singer, it might help you with the same thing.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 20, 2023 15:04:00 GMT
It's another example of the infantilisation of society. Kids not growing up and avoiding the adult world through higher education.
We were better off when it was more of an elite pursuit but as with so many things rooted in "nice ideas" and vaguely utopian goals (let's get everybody into education!) it ends up backfiring in predictable but also unexpected ways.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2023 15:09:17 GMT
Well in the grand scheme of things automation is going shrink your choice of degree because the future generations just won't be needed. What specific degrees are gonna disappear, i don't know, but it will happen.
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Post by oh oooh on Jul 20, 2023 15:47:04 GMT
I went to Wolverhampton Polytechnic and came out with a third-class BA Honours degree. It doesn't get much lower than that, in terms of quality of tertiary certification. We used to joke about wiping our arses on the certificates. I wanted to go to university to get away from Whitehaven, really. To live life in a bigger city, to meet people, to have greater access to culture. I'd had a taste of it already and I liked it. I was very conscious that those were my reasons, and I wasn't especially concerned even about what course I'd study. Wherever would take me. So I ended up ringing around, and was finally accepted on a course to study Economics and German at one of the UK's most Mickey Mouse institutions. And I was a genuinely terrible student - I missed lectures all the time, was a lazy, messy fucker and I drank way too much. Nonetheless it was a great experience in many ways. Only a few years later students had it much harder in terms of grants and funding - but in the late 80s and early 90s, we still got LEA cheques every semester, beer in the SU bar was subsidised, and the banks would give us free overdrafts. The money ran out a few weeks into term (unless you locked yourself in your dorm and lived on crisps), but there were (mostly legal) ways to cope. What made those three years especially worthwhile in a practical sense was the six-month study period in Germany (I was an Erasmus student). We got extra funding for that. The great thing was that nobody really checked what we were up to once we were over there, and we quickly sussed this out and stopped going to lectures (which were ridiculously early in the day AND incomprehensible to us anyway). The whole business of study was very much secondary to fully experiencing life in a foreign country for the first time- I mean, of COURSE it was! So we had the funds and we had the time to have fun, to socialise, even to travel a bit. It opened up doors for sure, and planted the idea of teaching English in my head (at least it seems so, in hindsight). You're basically describing a gravy train though. Essentially a subsidised piss up for young people to arse about. I mean, yeah, I'm sure it was fun and I had some of that fun too but with hindsight do you not think it's a bit of a joke? I mean what should higher education be about? What's the point? Well I suppose my general point was that the main reasons for going to university don't typically have much to do with gaining qualifications, but are more to do with enjoying yourself. And if you want something more solid, then 'broadening your horizons' is probably apt. And yeah, it might look like arsing around, that's probably fair enough. But back then, at least, we weren't really a burden on tax-paying citizens. We were just delaying the onset of responsibilities. Why wouldn't you?
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Post by oh oooh on Jul 20, 2023 15:48:12 GMT
How many degrees are in fact worthwhile in themselves anyway?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2023 15:52:58 GMT
A degree of optimism with a degree of cautiousness ?
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Post by oh oooh on Jul 20, 2023 15:53:34 GMT
HO HO
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2023 15:55:38 GMT
Definitely when dealing with da ho's!
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Post by oh oooh on Jul 20, 2023 17:55:29 GMT
I'm pretty sure there are/were degrees in Madonna and beyonce.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2023 18:17:20 GMT
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loveless
god
Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
Posts: 2,815
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Post by loveless on Jul 21, 2023 4:58:08 GMT
I was a high school dropout, one of those kids who tested into all gifted classes in advance of Freshman year and then systematically tanked virtually everything but English (and related). Now that I'm on "ADHD Twitter", I'm seeing how many of my people are out there (the precocious preteen voracious readers with big vocabularies and so much promise who all burned out before they were old enough to drive). Once I discovered ditching school (and drugs), it was only going to be a matter of time before maintaining high school enrollment became a conflict. Apart from my jazz band teacher (seemingly something of a wild man himself) insisting I honor my band obligations for the remainder of junior year (I dropped out a few months ahead of summer - but thanks to him, I still played Jazz Fest at 17), I think even the teachers and administrators who had made some effort with me were pretty happy to see me go.
I got a job, left home, got into a bit of trouble that summer, and...before I knew it, I was living with my aunt in Chicago (I feel like the Fresh Prince of Bel Air). I mean, I can't thank her enough for resetting the trajectory...a lot of selflessness (who in their right mind takes in a 17 year old ne-er do well?).
Anyhow, this is where college happens. She thought it was crucial, my whole family did, and...I was completely into it. I was a year ahead of schedule, but it was understood that I'd get my high school equivalency diploma at earliest eligibility (in Illinois, at the time, there was SO MUCH red tape surrounding this - it still pisses me off to think about it...seems pathologically systemic and prohibitive), and in the meantime I'd live w/ my aunt, start college (on her dime...again, nothing I've ever taken for granted), and work. A lifetime of seemingly falling into one situation after another was already underway.
But...it was fucking great. My situation is like a lot of people where...yes, of course, I had some great classes and instructors, but - in the main - the huge takeaway was the environment, the experience, the friendships, the freedom, the late teens/early twenties boozing and shagging. I had a lot of leeway, in terms of the courses I was able to take, and went very quickly from initially thinking I'd study music/related to finding more nourishment in courses related to writing and psychology. It was a great time/age to be free range in a big walkable city with superior public transportation, and...as a sort of scene setting platform for much of the rest of my life?
Well, shit. I started playing in bands, met SO MANY people I would end up playing with (and people who would introduce me to OTHER even more crucial people I'd end up playing with)...people who were in my wedding two decades later...people who got me my first real professional touring gig shortly after I graduated (I mean, the dye was truly set at that point). Andy (Phenomenal Cat) and I were inseparable - at least one professor separated us in a class (that we both aced).
Whomever I would or would not have met had I not gone to college? It's unknowable and immaterial. These are the people I met, and...so much of what transpired then, afterwards, and to this day is directly related to those meetings and relationships.
Did my degree yield any actual tangible currency in my subsequent adult life? No. But, here we are. I don't remotely feel worse off for the education itself.
Would it have benefited the world to some greater extent if I'd become, say, an apprentice electrician instead? I dunno - but, again, here we are.
Not once did I ever consider grad school. Getting that first tour within months of graduation seemed fairly fate sealing. For better or worse.
I'm weird on nostalgia - I feel like it's best enjoyed in extremely small doses, and you'd sure as hell never want to binge on it, so...yes, that period of life, that environment, that age, etc....it's (NATURALLY) very happily remembered, but...mostly, it really feels like some crucial runway (or bridge) to my subsequent/ongoing life. I've never considered that assorted choices and outcomes would have been more favorable without the college experience.
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