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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2021 13:24:10 GMT
I think they feel a bit left out. There's a suggestion that folk at disney were wanted to attract new younger viewers and really didn't give a fuck about the old skool fans.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2021 15:11:27 GMT
Star Wars fans....weird, obsessive behaviour?! They are nerds, this is their life and they feel that pop culture and the shit they like and grew up with is not what it was and that those in power are ruining it and treating them with contempt. For example when there was a backlash against the Last Jedi the actual director was chiming in and calling fans misogynists etc and, funnily enough, they took umbrage. It's weird to us cos we are not fussed about some Marvel nonsense and have moved on from this stuff but they are still watching Doctor Who. You know the type. Yeah but this idea that it was once some pure form of pop culture that has since been degraded seems a lot of nonsense.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2021 15:13:34 GMT
I think they feel a bit left out. There's a suggestion that folk at disney were wanted to attract new younger viewers and really didn't give a fuck about the old skool fans. Well they are essentially kids films after all.
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Post by Half Machine Lipschitz on Sept 8, 2021 15:58:24 GMT
I don't really follow these things, but what are the "culture war" type things going on in these newer films? I've seen them all, and while I agree that the overall quality in storytelling has degraded, I'm not sure what else is going on that I'm missing?
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Sept 8, 2021 16:13:13 GMT
Star Wars fans....weird, obsessive behaviour?! They are nerds, this is their life and they feel that pop culture and the shit they like and grew up with is not what it was and that those in power are ruining it and treating them with contempt. For example when there was a backlash against the Last Jedi the actual director was chiming in and calling fans misogynists etc and, funnily enough, they took umbrage. It's weird to us cos we are not fussed about some Marvel nonsense and have moved on from this stuff but they are still watching Doctor Who. You know the type. Yeah but this idea that it was once some pure form of pop culture that has since been degraded seems a lot of nonsense. They have two arguments..... 1. that these movies are not as good as they used to be and that certain "beloved" franchises (Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who) have been killed (I agree...compare Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull to the earlier ones, for example) and 2. part of the problem is that writers, directors and producers are pushing agenda and using pop culture as a tool to do this which they find detrimental to their entertainment and patronising as hell because they feel they are being lectured to. This is made worse when the fans criticise these movies online - with justification - and some of those involved have attacked and slurred them when they have the temerity to point out the blindingly obvious. In this way they have been degraded as pop culture and you can understand where they are coming from whilst also recognising they might benefit from 1. watching more Bergman movies and 2. going on some dates.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2021 16:36:51 GMT
Cheers for the explanation. I don't have much sympathy, but at least I now know!
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Sept 9, 2021 14:06:57 GMT
I don't really follow these things, but what are the "culture war" type things going on in these newer films? I've seen them all, and while I agree that the overall quality in storytelling has degraded, I'm not sure what else is going on that I'm missing? With Star Wars it's basically down to Kathleen Kennedy and her cohorts. First of all you have the whole standard diversity and inclusion thing going on hence.... www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/lucasfilms-force-kathleen-kennedy-reveals-an-executive-team-more-50-percent-female-953156/And obviously this has transferred into the storytelling, particularly the feminist aspect... They are completely open about this stuff. Kennedy has reshaped Lucasfilm around her and this new "diverse" approach with women and feminism at the heart of it. Now, obviously given the fact that Star Wars is more a blokes thing, even though women like it too, let's face it...Star Wars is more for boys and nerdy men, this has created issues because she has used Star Wars to push her own agenda. What I think the fans see is that Kennedy and her "diverse" cohorts have tried to reshape Star Wars around this and in doing so have debased the original trilogy and subverted and ruined the traditional story arcs that made it satisfying in doing so. I don't believe this was just poor writing and execution, I think the fans are actually onto something and saw through it, although I don't think you had to read between the lines too hard here to see what is going on (see above). For example Star Wars worked because it employed that Joseph Campbell hero mythology stuff that helped create a pop culture phenomenon that appealed so widely because it was also part of a continuum that harkened back to shared cultural myths and legends. In short it spoke to something innate in people, something atavistic that no longer really exists in modern culture. Most obviously in the story of Luke Skywalker and his journey to become a Jedi....a traditional heroes journey of discovery and self improvement where he falls and falls hard before finally succeeding and achieving his full potential. Basic stuff. Now compare that to Rey's story arc and it's not the same thing at all. In fact it makes no fucking sense at all. Why is she using Jedi mind tricks in the Force Awakens when she hasn't been taught? Why is she kicking Kylo Ren's arse with a lightsaber when SHE HASN'T BEEN FUCKING TAUGHT and he's a Jedi trained by FUCKING LUKE SKYWALKER. And so on. It's nonsensical and it completely breaks away from everything we have been shown before and anything that is emotionally and thematically satisfying to a Star Wars fan. In the last movie they tried to cack handedly explain this by making her the daughter of the Emperor (oh just fuck off) but even Luke, son of *spoilers* Darth Vadar needed to learn shit. Why? Why such nonsense? I think it's cos she is a women ya see and women are strong and powerful, in fact women are just as strong as powerful as men, in fact, probably more strong and powerful really and here's a women being very strong and powerful for three movies. What a hero. Someone for little Jess, 10, to look up to. Fuck the patriarchy and fuck all those whiny male Star Wars fans who ain't down with our shit. Rayne Roberts. “The reason Rey is strong and technically capable and compassionate and driven is that the women who were in that room, including Kathy, reflect those qualities.” lol. And its not just Rey. The male characters in general are weaker, sillier (Boyega goes nowhere and is saved by an Asian lass (obv), the cunt who flies - can't even mind his name - is similarly limited and treated with disdain by a heroic Laura Dern and even Luke Skywalker, a true hero is treated with a kind of contempt by Johnson (hello beta male director) and his character deconstructed in that way you get these days. The thing is though, this deconstruction aspect doesn't work with Star Wars because Star Wars is myth, legend, fairytale and when you fuck around with these things and introduce that nonsense you break the spell and no amount of John Williams music is gonna re-enchant us you know. The consequence of all this, in spite of the box office is that many older fans who grew up this shit are finished with it...sales of toys and merchandise have been significantly down which makes the people at Disney very unhappy of course and there has been, for some time now, a "civil war" going on at Lucasfilm between Kathleen Kennedy and her drones and another group led by some fellas (Favreau and some other geezer) who did The Mandalorian (George Lucas is on their side now). From what I've heard this battle has now been won in their favour and Kennedy - who has just had her contract extended for a year or two, primarily it seems to oversee the new Indy film - will be quietly eased out the back door after this and Disney will forget all about her.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2021 14:13:06 GMT
To be fair I think Star Wars have always been pretty diverse. In the one I saw they even let a bear pilot the spaceship.
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Post by bungo the mungo on Sept 9, 2021 17:27:50 GMT
kenneth anger's 'magick lantern cycle'.
inaugeration of the pleasure dome, in particular.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2021 17:48:06 GMT
kenneth anger's 'magick lantern cycle'. inaugeration of the pleasure dome, in particular. That's the one with Donald Cammel, right?
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Post by bungo the mungo on Sept 9, 2021 17:50:47 GMT
fasten your seat belt, G.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2021 19:14:10 GMT
If you read Douglind's rant, watch the Mandalorian. It's the template of how the films SHOULD have went. Favreau and Kennedy are fighting apparently. Favreau is top dog for the mandalorian, he did an amazing job.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Sept 10, 2021 9:39:25 GMT
To be fair I think Star Wars have always been pretty diverse. In the one I saw they even let a bear pilot the spaceship. He's a fucking WOOKIE you ignorant cunt
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Sept 10, 2021 9:45:49 GMT
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Sept 10, 2021 13:47:44 GMT
To be fair I think Star Wars have always been pretty diverse. In the one I saw they even let a bear pilot the spaceship. He's a fucking WOOKIE you ignorant cunt Wokie vs. Wookie
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