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Post by adamcoan on Sept 13, 2023 7:14:19 GMT
Why do you think unexplained or observed anomalies etc have to come from somewhere ?
Even having the most basic knowledge of physics is enough for the very proposal of space travel is nigh on impossible.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Sept 13, 2023 7:21:35 GMT
Why do you think unexplained or observed anomalies etc have to come from somewhere ? Even having the most basic knowledge of physics is enough for the very proposal of space travel is nigh on impossible. Assuming the physics has reached it's complete understanding is a crass and arrogant assumption, and I doubt there's many quantum physicists who would agree with you. Look I'm not going to try to persuade you of anything, at this point the evidence is overwhelming. Navy and airforce are seeing these things on a weekly basis. Some people shut their mind off to it and dismiss it because it's become tainted by conspiracy theory and the tackier realms of popular culture, so they think taking an interest in it will make them look foolish and gullible. For such people self-image is more important than just objectively taking a considered position.
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Post by tory on Sept 13, 2023 7:24:53 GMT
I'm happy to adopt a 90/10 position on these things. We cannot discount them completely but without definitive evidence one has to be skeptical.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Sept 13, 2023 7:26:17 GMT
Imagine if it’s giant apes with tits flying them around
How cool would that be?
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Post by adamcoan on Sept 13, 2023 7:50:52 GMT
Why do you think unexplained or observed anomalies etc have to come from somewhere ? Even having the most basic knowledge of physics is enough for the very proposal of space travel is nigh on impossible. Assuming the physics has reached it's complete understanding is a crass and arrogant assumption, and I doubt there's many quantum physicists who would agree with you. Look I'm not going to try to persuade you of anything, at this point the evidence is overwhelming. Navy and airforce are seeing these things on a weekly basis. Some people shut their mind off to it and dismiss it because it's become tainted by conspiracy theory and the tackier realms of popular culture, so they think taking an interest in it will make them look foolish and gullible. For such people self-image is more important than just objectively taking a considered position. The truth is G it is overwhelmingly promoted by conspiracy theorists and the tackier realms of popular culture that have contrived to make it anything but a case of overwhelming evidence based phenomena. It may have escaped your attention , we have spent an awful lot of time, money, academic thought and practice into understanding the laws of physics and ,where possible challenging and testing the laws of physics. Nothing in the laws of physics state extreme space travel is an absolute impossibility. Logically, you cannot travel at the speed of light, a space portal, tear in the fabric of time , parallel universes etc, would by their disruptive nature and effects , mean, you would be safe to conclude , under any scenario the vast distances in distance and time from a civilisation capable of a craft that could travel just under the speed of light , reaching a nearby anomaly would be more than a little problematic. Quantum theories can , in principal make the universe have short cuts, those short cuts however still leave you with the laws of physics that suggest it is more than unlikely that it is possible.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Sept 13, 2023 7:53:12 GMT
300 years ago we would not have been able to understand much of the modern world, so I don't find that a very persuasive argument.
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Post by adamcoan on Sept 13, 2023 8:05:35 GMT
300 years ago we would not have been able to understand much of the modern world, so I don't find that a very persuasive argument. That seriously isn't much of an argument. The bottom line is: there is the speed of light, factual and proven and relativity . Couple that with the observable universe and you are left with earth based phenomena. I am the same as you mate, genuinely interested. So far, nothing has surfaced to suggest that in our part of the galaxy , we are not alone.
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Post by DayoRemix on Sept 13, 2023 8:20:03 GMT
Come on..All they need is a working Alcubierre drive !
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Sept 13, 2023 8:39:40 GMT
300 years ago we would not have been able to understand much of the modern world, so I don't find that a very persuasive argument. That seriously isn't much of an argument. The bottom line is: there is the speed of light, factual and proven and relativity . Couple that with the observable universe and you are left with earth based phenomena. I am the same as you mate, genuinely interested. So far, nothing has surfaced to suggest that in our part of the galaxy , we are not alone. Maybe there are inter-dimensions, maybe time can be folded in on itself so speed of light isn't relevant..I don't know, this is way above my pay grade. I do know science is making incredible advances and stuff that was thought of as science fiction 30 years ago is now being taken seriously. If we are talking of incredibly advanced alien races, then using our current understanding to judge how probable their travel is is going to be self-defeating, just as expecting a cow to understand television would be.
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Sept 13, 2023 14:03:10 GMT
Genuinely, where is the mystery? Well we don't know what they are or where they come from! Yes to the first one, by definition. If we knew what they were, they wouldn't be unidentified.
They come from Earth, or, more precisely from the minds and sensory impressions of human beings.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Sept 13, 2023 14:12:12 GMT
Well we don't know what they are or where they come from! Yes to the first one, by definition. If we knew what they were, they wouldn't be unidentified.
They come from Earth, or, more precisely from the minds and sensory impressions of human beings.
I find those kind of blanket psychological explanations way too pat. If you think military bases and pilots that have had mysterious flying objects accompanying their planes are all suffering from some mass hallucination (which also affects their equipment) then fine. But I find that explanation totally inadequate.
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Sept 13, 2023 14:24:02 GMT
Assuming the physics has reached it's complete understanding is a crass and arrogant assumption, and I doubt there's many quantum physicists who would agree with you. Look I'm not going to try to persuade you of anything, at this point the evidence is overwhelming. Navy and airforce are seeing these things on a weekly basis. Some people shut their mind off to it and dismiss it because it's become tainted by conspiracy theory and the tackier realms of popular culture, so they think taking an interest in it will make them look foolish and gullible. For such people self-image is more important than just objectively taking a considered position. The truth is G it is overwhelmingly promoted by conspiracy theorists and the tackier realms of popular culture that have contrived to make it anything but a case of overwhelming evidence based phenomena. It may have escaped your attention , we have spent an awful lot of time, money, academic thought and practice into understanding the laws of physics and ,where possible challenging and testing the laws of physics. Nothing in the laws of physics state extreme space travel is an absolute impossibility. Logically, you cannot travel at the speed of light, a space portal, tear in the fabric of time , parallel universes etc, would by their disruptive nature and effects , mean, you would be safe to conclude , under any scenario the vast distances in distance and time from a civilisation capable of a craft that could travel just under the speed of light , reaching a nearby anomaly would be more than a little problematic. Quantum theories can , in principal make the universe have short cuts, those short cuts however still leave you with the laws of physics that suggest it is more than unlikely that it is possible. Quantum physics explains things that happen at the atomic or subatomic level. They have nothing to say about the concept of intelligent extra-terrestrials constructing anthropomorphic craft out of metals to carry viable biological entities across unimaginably vast distances.
No-one imagined space-craft 200 years ago, yet they saw dragons, Angels, warring gods and so on. Language and the ability to conceptualize have hard-wired into humans that their perceptions reflect actual forms and events outside themselves, and that these have meaning and substance,whereas everything we 'experience' is created by our minds. We seek explanations for unexplained phenomena without entertaining the possibility that 'out there' is, without human intervention, random and chaotic, or that the phenomena themselves may be generated by glitches in our sensory system or misfiring neurons. This isn't my usual spaced out schtick, this is basic neuroscience (and indeed, in the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, and the idea of the observer-created universe, one of the foundations of quantum physics). I'm basically a Romantic, and quite prepared to cleave to Keats's notion of negative capability, and indeed to the basic tenets of Forteanism, but the notion that any 'UFO' sighting is representative of a physical visit of alien life forms that have traveled unimaginable distances in 'craft' analogous to any terrestrial machinery is simply risible.
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Sept 13, 2023 14:27:22 GMT
Yes to the first one, by definition. If we knew what they were, they wouldn't be unidentified.
They come from Earth, or, more precisely from the minds and sensory impressions of human beings.
I find those kind of blanket psychological explanations way too pat. If you think military bases and pilots that have had mysterious flying objects accompanying their planes are all suffering from some mass hallucination (which also affects their equipment) then fine. But I find that explanation totally inadequate. Life itself is a 'hallucination'. I hope you find my expanded post more to your liking
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Sept 13, 2023 15:29:23 GMT
but the notion that any 'UFO' sighting is representative of a physical visit of alien life forms that have traveled unimaginable distances in 'craft' analogous to any terrestrial machinery is simply risible. Indeed, but even adherents to the extra-terrestrial theory wouldn't claim that all sightings are the results of extra-terrestrial visitations (as opposed to having natural meteorological or other explanations). But there remains a number of incidents happening fairly regularly that defy easy analysis and coupled with the increase in military and governmental whistleblowing over this topic, mean that it needs to be taken seriously.
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Post by tory on Sept 13, 2023 16:21:19 GMT
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