Musical opinions by musicians: everybody's got 1...or 2...

[fange]

Gene Simmons has been at it again, this time taking aim at "virtuosity" in music...

www.guitarworld.com/artists/bassists/gene-simmons-technical-skill-doesnt-matter



“I don't consider myself – and was never really interested in being – a bass virtuoso,” he explains when reflecting on his catalog of hits. “I don't like show-offs in music. I'm much more attracted to things that are memorable. It's part of the joy of music for me.

“You can be a jazz player and be respected by musicians, but the rest of the world doesn't care,” Simmons adds. “We're going to play a game: name a jazz player that means something.

“How about John McLaughlin? He's a great player. But here's a question: can you hum any melody that he's ever played on a solo? Of course not.

“All due respect, but that music is intended to show off how well you play – but I don't care about that. The hardest thing to do is write a good simple song or riff. That's really hard.”

“There are an awful lot of amazing bass players, like Jaco Pastorius and the jazz guys. Or guys like Flea, who is really good on his instrument, but I can't remember anything he plays – and I also do not like the sound of a bass being slapped.”

“Clapton, before he went pop, and when he was considered 'God,' he was interviewed, and he said something very profound: 'The hardest thing to do is to know what notes to put in a solo, and what notes not to put in a solo.'

“Sometimes, if it's shockingly simple, and barely moving at all, but I can hum it, that's what matters because it's memorable.”



Thoughts? As laughable a character as his public persona is, do you agree with ANY of his words of wisdom above?

[fange]

“We're going to play a game: name a jazz player that means something.

Feck me, that made me almost laugh and puke at the same time. One of the most obnoxious things I have read for a LONG time. "Means something" (rofl)

and yet...

"The hardest thing to do is write a good simple song or riff [that's memorable]".

Maybe it's the proverbial broken clock, but... yeah. Just a shame you didn't write a lot either, Gene, you human sewerage outlet.

[adamcoan]

Go Gene.

[fange]

Oh you must be HUGE Kiss fan, yeah Jimmy?

["BING E BONG"]

I dislike Gene Simmons intensely but he makes some valid points about simplicity there. Simple melodies are often stronger, more fun, more memorable. And endless widdly-woo jazz solos can of course get tedious.

But the idea that being able to 'hum' a melody - much less a virtuoso taking a solo - is some sort of test of its worth....give me a fucking break.

[fange]

Yeah, agreed, he is all over the shop. By his own measure here he contradicts himself, as jazz is absolutely bursting with songs that are melodically very hummable, if that is somehow your peak standard for a great song.

The whole thing seems to be centred around his ego, not surprisingly; a couple of ideas that it would be hard to argue against - simple melodies are often the most memorable, Jaco and Flea are great bass players - but then he uses those points to try and convince you that he is right about the other stuff, so he will feel more comfortable with his personal musical limitations and narrow viewpoint - anything that i can't play or dont like is not good or worthwhile.

[loveless]

Well, yeah, his role for most of this century (and probably much longer) has been primarily as this bloviating blowhard...."the answer to a question that no one asked"...etc. - and, ala Trump or Morrissey or Noel/Liam Gallagher, these reliably superfluous proclamations do give the appearance of some intoxicating and addictive drug that he just requires more and more of. Is he dangerously high on his own fumes? Of course. Could he, under these circumstances and with this tiresome reputation, end up saying the most truthful thing in the world (or expressing some belief to which I am sympathetic) and have me end up disagreeing with him on sheer principal? Yeah, probably. I know people like him (deeply self-regarding, obnoxiously so - may or may not have podcasts these days), and my visceral responses are wholly predictable. Shit - I even know some generally good, well meaning, and right-thinking people who (perhaps unknowingly) can slip a little too easily into these modes (I make no such claims for Simmons - and I'm probably the biggest KISS fan in this community by some margin).

And, yes, of course - people have been expressing some variation of this idea for...well, certainly longer than I have been paying attention. At the root of punk, at the root of appreciation for 50s rock, blues, garage, pop, etc. is the sort of kernel of his rant (which, of course, he presents as a mind-blowingly novel and original notion...piling a heaping helping of patented arrogance on top)...beauty/power in simplicity, that there is often a connection made from the most basic of materials, that virtuosity in itself is no substitute for a powerful idea.

I'll put it this way - I think you or I or any one of us could express some variation of this thought here at Preludin (minus the sort of inherent ugliness of how he puts it across, and perhaps without specifically diminishing the whole of jazz music and its most remarkable practitioners) and no one would bat an eyelid. I can't specifically remember the most recent time someone brought up, I dunno, the Troggs or the Rolling Stones or the Ramones or AC/DC or whomever - but, you know...probably a handful of people who aren't dickheads praised them on similar grounds. Minus the chest thumping. I'm disinclined to check my math here, but...I'd even bet that there are moments in the semi-recent prog thread which bear some adjacency to either Simmons' remarks, tone, or - assuredly - the essence of his basic premise.

[fange]

If anyone's got any more great examples of artists expressing their priceless musical wisdom to the grateful masses please share here too.

[rayge]

Oct 28, 2024 11:12:25 GMT fange said:

If anyone's got any more great examples of artists expressing their priceless musical wisdom to the grateful masses please share here too.

Do/can you play a musical instrument, fange?

[adamcoan]

Oct 28, 2024 8:59:43 GMT fange said:

Oh you must be HUGE Kiss fan, yeah Jimmy?

God of thunder rocks!!

Miles Davis for example, often merely sounds like an accidental fart at a dinner party.

[fange]

Oct 28, 2024 12:07:55 GMT rayge said:

Oct 28, 2024 11:12:25 GMT fange said:

If anyone's got any more great examples of artists expressing their priceless musical wisdom to the grateful masses please share here too.

Do/can you play a musical instrument, fange?

Just when i talk out my arse, Ray, so yeah quite regularly!

But seriously, no. I've dabbled with the guitar at times over the years but have never gotten very good. Why?

[fange]

Oct 28, 2024 12:55:03 GMT adamcoan said:

Oct 28, 2024 8:59:43 GMT fange said:

Oh you must be HUGE Kiss fan, yeah Jimmy?

God of thunder rocks!!

Miles Davis for example, often merely sounds like an accidental fart at a dinner party.

I'd say a very purposeful fart at times! And yet, the same guy could play and write some of the most beautiful music you could ever wish to hear, just bursting with colour and emotion. Even as a young guy Miles never had the incredible technique of Dizzy, aLee Morgan or Freddie Hubbard, but when he played it came from his soul, pure, all the way. As a player Gene Simmons would need to climb on Paul AND Ace's shoulders just to see the bottom of Miles' level of musical expression.

[adamcoan]

To be fair, this isn't about Kiss v jazz. I know where he is coming from. Naturally, as usual, Old Gene is clumsy and a little tongue in cheek.

[rayge]

Oct 28, 2024 13:06:18 GMT fange said:

Oct 28, 2024 12:07:55 GMT rayge said:

Do/can you play a musical instrument, fange?

Just when i talk out my arse, Ray, so yeah quite regularly!

But seriously, no. I've dabbled with the guitar at times over the years but have never gotten very good. Why?

Because it occurred to me that as the first definition of a 'musician' is someone who plays a musical instrument, that most of the opinions expressed on Preludin come from musicians. They don't have to be masters of their instrument to qualify as musicians.

Obviously, it doesn't apply to me, and I'm pretty sure not to DF; maybe not to dayo, G, Neige, nor Snee, although I stand to be corrected. Pretty much everyone else who posts regularly on music threads at least dabbles and often was or is a member of an actual performing band.

I'm perhaps more sensitive to this because of my often-confessed complete inability to get my head around musical theory or actually hear whether a note is 'wrong' or 'right', so much of what musicians say about music actively excludes me, which is perhaps why I can't meaningfully comment on what GS is saying.

[fange]

Well, in the case of this thread, I am just asking if anyone has heard or read any interesting/unusual points of view (about music specifically or art in general) made by "famous" musicians/artists.

They all have their points of view about what music is "good" or "bad", "better" or "worse" than other kinds of music, just like every other sucker on Earth. Bowie loved jazz, Gene Simmons thinks it is rubbish? Who do we agree with and who is "right"? Let the peanut gallery decide.
Sure, Gene Simmons is a better bass player than i will ever be. Does that mean i should accept his word on what makes a good or bad bass player, let alone music in general? Do you believe and agree with him about jazz musicians being basically meaningless, Ray? Ellington, Coleman, Dorsey, Christian, Basie, Gordon...? Whether he meant it tongue in cheek not.
You don't need to be a musician to have view on that, no?