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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Dec 1, 2019 21:32:39 GMT
Meanwhile 'BoJo' guffaws over another bottle of Chablis. The lack of interest in and lack of respect for any part of the political process is visible to the entire populace. Yet the blob cunt will still get elected.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 2, 2019 14:06:45 GMT
It's funny how you are not mentioning the opinions of the majority of the Jewish community about this. A recent poll, I think, had 47% saying they would consider leaving the country if he was elected. Why would they not be fucking nervous about having an institutionally anti-semitic party in government? And do you think they might recognise anti-semitism better than you do? Absolutely. They were genuine questions, D. What would happen if JC were to become PM? Would he take away the rights of Jews in the UK? Close down their businesses/? What is the threat? What are they worried about? Otherwise it's just 'Corbyn sat down with such-and-such' or 'Labour Party frontbencher says Jews caused the financial crisis' or whatever. Which might be wrong, but hardly a reason to leave the country, it seems to me. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it. Why would they fear an increase in anti-semitism? I find it slightly odd that you are asking what would be the real world consequences of having an anti-semitic party in power (or at least a party that has failed to tackle this problem) but... linklinkWhat you would see is an increase in anti-semitic attacks. You would see increasing hostility towards Jews, particularly those expressed their identity in a way not deemed suitable the anti-Zionist group. Let's go back a bit to add some context to that question. Toby asked you if you believed the charged of anti-semitism and you said you do. Good. So on one hand you accept there is a problem and you accept that Corbyn hasn't dealt with it ("lack of leadership" I think is what you said). Now, one question is....why has a "lifelong anti-racist" campaigner who is so repulsed by racism failed to tackle such a problem within his own party? Look at the interview with Neil and how he needed to be pushed to recognise the Rothschild/Zionist comment as "anti-semitic". I think he's loathe to admit such things because he probably feels this plays into the hands of "Zionists" and therefore against the Palestinians and also because he doesn't recognise modern day anti-semitism himself which is a huge problem. He is a very simple man remember who lives in a very simple, binary world of good guys and bad guys and you see this worldview manifest in his words and actions all the time. The problem has failed to be tackled because Corbyn doesn't see it as a problem in the way that Jews and many others like myself do. Like some BCBers I suspect in real life he sees this, like they do, as some kind of manufactured right wing smear hence the truculent, teeth pulling responses. He seems oblivious as to how he may have contributed to this problem but there you do. He crucially lacks self awareness too of course. Another question, and the more important one here....given you accept there is a problem and that Corbyn has failed to deal with it how do you reconcile your support for Labour with this? How can you, as a man of the left and someone naturally opposed to racism basically say, "ok, we can live with this" which is what it seems that you are saying, no? if the issue was racism against black people that had failed to be adequately addressed by a leader who has spent decades cosying up to racists why would then agree to vote for that leader? This is the dividing line and why people like me struggle to understand how someone like you, and others around these parts and elsewhere can compartmentalize this shit and say, "ok we can live with this". Can you understand why that is irksome? The cognitive dissonance. We can't live with this and I think that is the position which is consistent with being left wing i.e. fighting racism and protecting vulnerable minorities wherever we see it, even if this means on the left itself (especially so because we have influence). How do you reconcile that with voting Labour essentially? Earlier on you and G said this was a marginal issue but I couldn't disagree more. This is about what kind of party Labour is and what kind of country we are. This is worth a read. It's from Anthony Julius to historian Sir Richard Evans who came out in support of Labour recently (I believe he has now withdrawn his support) link
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 2, 2019 14:07:48 GMT
Apologies for the delay in replying but I've spent the last three days puking and shitting thanks to some dreadful bug.
Luck for you I'm back to save the soul of Preludin.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Dec 2, 2019 16:41:18 GMT
Glad you're better, D.
At the risk of being called lazy or 'not engaging with the problem' or some such thing, I don't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic, I definitely do not think the Labour Party is an anti-Semitic party (that's an absurd proposition, by the way), and consequently I don't have a problem voting for them when a small minority of their memberships have said things that could be construed as 'anti-Semitic'.
And I still don't think that there'd be a threat to Jews living in the UK if Corbyn's party formed a government (not that that's likely to happen). I see more of a racist element in the Conservative Party and I think that's more of a concern.
In short: yes, there are problems but I (still) don't see what the fuss is about, and at the risk of annoying you again, I don't understand why you devote such time on thinking and writing about this when there are FAR greater issues at stake right now.
I wish someone else would step forward and talk about this. There are at least another four people here who chose the Labour option in the poll. Speak up.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 2, 2019 17:33:29 GMT
In short you can live with it. From what you'd written earlier and your dismissal of institutional claims I'm not sure you understand what that means tbh. This is worth a read if you can be arsed. David Hirsh is very good on this topic too. linkWe're getting nowhere though. Later x
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Post by The Red Heifer on Dec 3, 2019 0:59:47 GMT
linkI know twitter is a cesspool full of people who have opinions no one cares about, but this thread showing the level people will to go to tie themselves in knots just to be on the opposite side of Jeremy Corbyn is incredible.
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Post by tory on Dec 3, 2019 7:09:49 GMT
When you look at the policies he’s mooting, that’s the issue. Most people understand that you can’t summon up money from nowhere and that taking the wealthy doesn’t work.
Hollander taxed the wealthy at 70% in France. The result? 300k French people moved to London in the biggest migration since the Huguenots. He lost all that tax revenue in one to, enjoyed approval ratings of 12% and pretty much lost an chance of the Socialists ever getting back into power for a generation.
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rayge
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Posts: 8,789
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Post by rayge on Dec 3, 2019 8:33:08 GMT
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Post by Cousin Lou on Dec 3, 2019 10:11:22 GMT
When you look at the policies he’s mooting, that’s the issue. Most people understand that you can’t summon up money from nowhere and that taking the wealthy doesn’t work. Hollander taxed the wealthy at 70% in France. The result? 300k French people moved to London in the biggest migration since the Huguenots. He lost all that tax revenue in one to, enjoyed approval ratings of 12% and pretty much lost an chance of the Socialists ever getting back into power for a generation. Wow, that's an absurdly big number! And, what's more important, not true. In 2015, only about half of that number of French were living in the entire UK,not just London, most of which had come long before Hollander increased taxes: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom#Country_of_birth
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 3, 2019 10:18:58 GMT
When you look at the policies he’s mooting, that’s the issue. Most people understand that you can’t summon up money from nowhere and that taking the wealthy doesn’t work. Hollander taxed the wealthy at 70% in France. The result? 300k French people moved to London in the biggest migration since the Huguenots. He lost all that tax revenue in one to, enjoyed approval ratings of 12% and pretty much lost an chance of the Socialists ever getting back into power for a generation.
It's pie in the sky populism. It's just left wing populism as opposed to the right wing variety we have seen elsewhere hence why he appeals to X, Y and Z (the Tories have succumbed to this too but are at least still tethered to economic realities even if they are led by a dreadful cunt).
He does the same thing Trump does....slag off "elites", talk in conspiratorial terms about the "mainstream media", paint a simple Us v Them narrative that appeals. Look at this ffs...
Nick Cohen is reliably good on these things:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/01/politicians-and-cultist-supporters-in-cahoots-avoiding-scrutiny-is-their-aim
"Corbyn is not a victim, however thoroughly he has convinced the paranoid sentimentalists of the Labour movement that he is a new Christ, crucified by the powers that be and the Jews. He cannot answer because he is a representative of a breed of politicians whose success is built on extravagant promises that fool the base, and perhaps fool themselves as well, for Corbyn gives every appearance of being a dealer in fantasy high on his own supply.
Johnson is running away from Neil and other interviewers because he is no different. For all the contrasts in style, Johnson lies to his supporters and in all probability to himself. The Liberal Democrats have produced a list of 20 questions any competent journalist should ask just about his promise to “get Brexit done” and conclude a free trade deal with the EU within a year. Half focus on his impossible promises: “Can you identify a single comprehensive FTA (free trade agreement) completed by the European Union in under 11 months?” Half on the crisis that will be on us by June 2020: “Do you believe that businesses should stand down their no-deal preparations if you pass the withdrawal agreement?”
Johnson can no more answer them than Corbyn can explain his attitudes to Jews. To even consider them legitimate questions bursts the bubbles of fantasy that Britain’s political leaders cocoon their supporters in. Labour instructed the members of its WhatsApp group to “not talk about this group to anyone outside the group”.
What a motto for modern Britain that provides. Don’t talk to strangers from outside the cult. Don’t blow the gaff. Don’t admit we are propagandists but pretend to be truth-tellers. Don’t ask hard questions, and don’t answer them either. And when journalists complain, shut them out or scream them down"
Fool the base indeed. He is promising the earth but cannot possible deliver but Labour are throwing everything that can to try and win votes (free milky bars will be next). The polls are closing so maybe it's working but this kind of project is always doomed to fail. The whole SAVE THE NHS thing is populist fear mongering. Taken to task here by Andrew Neil:
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000c633/the-andrew-neil-show-series-1-27112019
I think I need a lie down (and some heroin)
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 4, 2019 18:13:55 GMT
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Post by DarknessFish on Dec 4, 2019 21:21:28 GMT
Largely a good article, yet I find this statement baffling: ”Its vow to cancel Brexit by revoking Article 50 has rightly been rejected by even Remainers as illiberal and undemocratic."
How could it be undemocratic, if the Lib Dems won an election on this ticket? I mean, that would be the biggest shock ever. It won't happen, because they chose an ineffectual supply teacher as leader. But if it did, it would be profoundly democratic.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Dec 4, 2019 21:38:35 GMT
It's that line you often get from Brexiteers - 'you have to respect the wishes of the electorate'. Whatever happens, we have to 'get Brexit done'.
The fact that nobody who voted Leave would vote Lib Dem seems to elude these fatuous arseholes.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Dec 4, 2019 21:41:42 GMT
Anyway Johnson's going to get his majority and he's going to set the wheels in motion on January 31st.
Is there anyone who genuinely doubts this is what'll happen?
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 4, 2019 22:18:39 GMT
Worst case hung.
Small majority at best though I suspect
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