toomanyhatz
god
I've met him/her. He/she's great!!
Posts: 3,241
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Post by toomanyhatz on Feb 23, 2023 21:02:37 GMT
...but I guess this is a discussion for another place. Cinema is not dying. Cinemas are dying, maybe. The desire to create and the ability to do so easily is thriving. The true artists are few and far between, but t'was ever thus.
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Post by tory on Feb 23, 2023 21:06:21 GMT
The argument I guess is - does it matter?
I mean, I will probably read another 1500 books in my life and none of them need to be new.
I have enough in the works of Bach, Brahms, Wagner and various Jazz artists to last a lifetime.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Feb 23, 2023 21:15:51 GMT
Just for the record, I do agree fully with this part. But I also think TV has improved, or at least expanded. As far as geniuses, I already named three. I think Tarantino and Lynch and a lot of others still have the maverick nature of a Hitch or a Ford, though they may not produce as much and have more failures. I think animation is better than ever. There are movies from every country now, not just the west. Will it be delivered differently? Will more be watched on a private screen at home? Absolutely. Is there a shortage of good, original films? Not that I've seen. Maybe it will produce a Wells-level genius and maybe it won't. But I'm not anywhere near as worried about the future of film as I am the future of music. TV has improved but it'll never be cinema. You can't produce a Ran or a Persona for the telly. I can't comment on Campion but Spike Lee and Del Toro are not geniuses. Lynch is 77 and his last film was 17 years ago. Tarantino is an auteur but not a Great filmmaker although he can be a very entertaining one. Sadly he has all the meta emptiness one associates with too much culture these days. He has nothing really to say.
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toomanyhatz
god
I've met him/her. He/she's great!!
Posts: 3,241
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Post by toomanyhatz on Feb 23, 2023 21:24:51 GMT
The argument I guess is - does it matter? I mean, I will probably read another 1500 books in my life and none of them need to be new. I have enough in the works of Bach, Brahms, Wagner and various Jazz artists to last a lifetime. ...and you have quicker access to it at your fingertips. The cream will rise to the top, as it always does. Does it matter? Probably not.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Feb 23, 2023 21:26:53 GMT
And anything being produced right now that is dead, dead good will still be around in 20 years time and it's really dead, dead, good then you'll probably become aware of how dead, dead good it is by then.
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Post by Sneelock on Feb 23, 2023 21:46:37 GMT
I keep saying it, we are in decline as a civilisation. Standards are dropping, mediocrity is being elevated. There is decay all around us. I really wish you'd stop with this nonsense. not me. reminds me of Old Republican Uncles that used to talk this way all the time - in the 70's. I miss them a little less when I hear stuff like that.
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toomanyhatz
god
I've met him/her. He/she's great!!
Posts: 3,241
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Post by toomanyhatz on Feb 23, 2023 22:33:25 GMT
And anything being produced right now that is dead, dead good will still be around in 20 years time and it's really dead, dead, good then you'll probably become aware of how dead, dead good it is by then. We might be dead, dead, dead by then, but I agree that this is true.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Feb 24, 2023 7:49:51 GMT
cinema it really feels like an art form is withering on the vine and dying before our eyes. Which sounds melodramatic but there you go. I don't think the kids are into cinema these days and some of the younger ones I've met don't appear to even understand it as an art form at all. It might as well be bleeding opera to them. Could not disagree more. It's never been a field where the youth of its creator was that essential to their creation in the same way as music. I think cinema's just getting started. There are as many cinematic geniuses as there ever were. The main differences are: 1) we truly have an international perspective now - more women directors, more non-white actors playing non-white parts. The people who where excluded from the 'Hollywood system' are no longer being excluded. I certainly would not want to be without the voices of Spike Lee, Jane Campion, Gilluermo Del Toro, etc. - all of whom are alive and working and would not have been given the same chance to succeed 40 years ago. If you want to blame for that one, have at it. You're welcome. 2) We have the old technology AND the new technology. The possibilities have been expanded. Yes, there is a disadvantage to it being TOO easy, but our culture is still producing people that are attracted to working with an actual thing that they can feel as opposed to a digital field. I have not ever gotten to all the movies I wanted to see that came out in a given year, and I still haven't caught up. And I consider myself to be someone 'into cinema.' It's not withering at all. It's growing, expanding, and still producing as much good art as ever. Possibly more. I somewhat agree with this. I did think about this last night actually. That women and black people can now actually tell their stories is a massive change, and it's shameful it's taken this long. The only caveat I'd add is that although I see plenty of good films these days, I don't see many (if any) great ones.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Feb 24, 2023 7:56:03 GMT
The argument I guess is - does it matter? I mean, I will probably read another 1500 books in my life and none of them need to be new. I have enough in the works of Bach, Brahms, Wagner and various Jazz artists to last a lifetime. I think it does yeah. There is something more powerful about art of the moment that speaks to us, that connects us, that inspires us, we can't only live in the past.
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Post by tory on Feb 24, 2023 8:09:04 GMT
Well there's always performance art for you G. Or Drill. Or the next Fast and Furious movie.
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Post by davey on Feb 24, 2023 8:42:12 GMT
This subject kinda dovetails with the Ronald Dahl thread for me. It’s really all part and parcel of the same thing… consultant culture or something.
We’re all burdened by big data. It’s making everything the same thing. There’s no good business argument for coloring outside the lines anymore… a consultant somewhere can give you definitive proof why you will lose money if you do. So the shareholders demand that you toe the line. Just as the folks stewarding Dahl’s work hired consultants to expand the market value of his works. Everything in our culture flows downstream from that kind of process.
The conversation about film that’s been happening on this thread is a mirror of the same conversation I see everywhere. The notion that you could compare Quentin Tarantino to John Ford is the most ludicrous form of grade inflation. It isn’t just that the multiplexes are closing - the real problem is the money isn’t flowing to art anymore. Only a small number of name-brand directors have the freedom to create with a real budget. There are, of course, festivals and a film sub-culture that appears to believe itself vibrant. Usually very low budget films that can’t get distribution. Whenever I delve in, I find myself unimpressed… but I’m not the core audience.
Which brings me to another point; One of the reasons we think of culture as stagnant is that we’re looking for it in all of the places it used to be. But young people are getting their culture in video games, virtual reality, apps, YouTube, Tik Tok and a bunch of places we aren’t looking and don’t care about.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Feb 24, 2023 8:46:18 GMT
so what's worth watching on TikTok? 🙂
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Feb 24, 2023 8:47:02 GMT
On your last point, that's true. But does it produce anything of any value? This argument 'well you're not the audience' (not applying that to your post btw) is superficially true, but it seems a bit of an excuse too, a way of evading the issue.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Feb 24, 2023 8:52:03 GMT
Is there a term (there should be) for art/entertainment that only entertainments for the duration of the time it takes to watch it and is then immediately forgotten about? Whatever...there's a lot of that about. They're more like distractions really to fill the time. People used to say pop music was disposable, but it wasn't really, at least not the best stuff.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Feb 24, 2023 8:52:28 GMT
ephemeral
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