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Post by oh oooh on Nov 16, 2019 10:54:28 GMT
There's a particular type of semi-formal writing that you see used a lot by the educated (to show they're educated, presumably). The sort of people I work with are absolutely fucking dripping with this crap.
I suppose it's a kind of code. You get lots of 'I find that' and 'Having said that,' and it strips the language of all character and ends up being impossibly dull to read.
I think the 'task' that people find themselves engaging in (writing a film review is a good example) starts bells ringing in their head, and they feel they have to rise to the occasion by using these tiresome lifeless phrases. Not cliches, exactly, not anything as colourful as that. Just rote crap, straight out of some middle-American/middle-England journal.
I think I'd probably prefer to read 'your lovely' or 'banana's 59p/kilo' kind of abuse than this stuff.
And yes, I'm aware this post is written in that style. It's infectious, especially when you spend time on message boards. Yes, I am ashamed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2019 11:33:53 GMT
"That said"
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fonz
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Post by fonz on Nov 16, 2019 12:13:09 GMT
Everyone’s a writer these days. Anyone can have a go, and see it on a screen/ whatever. ‘Yippee!’ I’m published!
Good writing will always have a value though. Don’t give up, John, it’s worth persevering.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2019 13:43:54 GMT
Everyone’s a writer these days. Anyone can have a go, and see it on a screen/ whatever. ‘Yippee!’ I’m published! Good writing will always have a value though. Don’t give up, John, it’s worth persevering. God, don't do that. That's like telling JImbo that martians wrote the Magna Carta. He'll just run with it. Actually, I've never thought about what John writes about, but it does seem pervasive. It infests a lot of areas, including journalism.
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Post by DarknessFish on Nov 16, 2019 13:53:07 GMT
It's the writing in the articles like Toby posts that I dislike, excess verbiage, where a promulgation of contemporaneous homogeneous exclamations serve no purpose but to try and hide the fact the author doesn't have any actual point to make.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2019 14:40:19 GMT
It's the writing in the articles like Toby posts that I dislike, excess verbiage, where a promulgation of contemporaneous homogeneous exclamations serve no purpose but to try and hide the fact the author doesn't have any actual point to make. Yes, it brings with it an unpleasant mix of elitism and pomposity.
A lot of the colloquial, conversational type phrases mentioned so far, "that said" etc. don't bother me at all. I'm a bit baffled why they would piss people off.
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Post by Cousin Lou on Nov 16, 2019 15:06:28 GMT
It is a bit bland, yes. Especiallly the ‘I find that’, and ‘having said that’ are often used to avoid criticism and a bit of showing off that yes, they are aware of the counter argument too.
I don’t mind it in business type publications that much but in a review of an album, film or book I’d rather see more character seep through.
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Nov 16, 2019 15:23:54 GMT
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Post by tory on Nov 16, 2019 15:23:54 GMT
It's the writing in the articles like Toby posts that I dislike, excess verbiage, where a promulgation of contemporaneous homogeneous exclamations serve no purpose but to try and hide the fact the author doesn't have any actual point to make. Yes, it brings with it an unpleasant mix of elitism and pomposity.
A lot of the colloquial, conversational type phrases mentioned so far, "that said" etc. don't bother me at all. I'm a bit baffled why they would piss people off.
Michael Oakeshott clearly not your thing then. A pity as he was one of our finest thinkers.
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Post by oh oooh on Nov 16, 2019 15:48:27 GMT
It's the writing in the articles like Toby posts that I dislike, excess verbiage, where a promulgation of contemporaneous homogeneous exclamations serve no purpose but to try and hide the fact the author doesn't have any actual point to make. Yes, it brings with it an unpleasant mix of elitism and pomposity.
A lot of the colloquial, conversational type phrases mentioned so far, "that said" etc. don't bother me at all. I'm a bit baffled why they would piss people off.
They're not particularly conversational and they're certainly not colloquial. That was my entire point - that they're an attempt to write in a non-conversational way, indicating an academic background. It's so common that you might not notice it. It's an absence of style, in fact. Of course it's difficult to write in an identifiable style without it looking a bit gimmicky - that's part of the problem. So the vast majority of paid writers go for this 'School of Journalism 2019' thing because it's safe, it's easy to read because of familiarity, and they look like they know what they're talking about.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2019 15:52:37 GMT
I'm still not sure what you mean then. Have you got an example?
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Post by oh oooh on Nov 16, 2019 15:56:11 GMT
I'm actually trying to find one now! It's fair to ask and I should have started the thread with an example.
Many lengthy film reviews on BCB (I'd better not say 'here'!) are written in that kind of style. Like it's expected. Have a look.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2019 15:59:45 GMT
Do you mean language that uses a kind of euphemistic and contrived politeness to say what they really mean?
As in " I find it may not be quite to my taste.." as opposed to "It's complete and utter bilge!"
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Post by oh oooh on Nov 16, 2019 16:01:35 GMT
That's part of it, definitely.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2019 16:29:25 GMT
I'm actually trying to find one now! It's fair to ask and I should have started the thread with an example. Many lengthy film reviews on BCB (I'd better not say 'here'!) are written in that kind of style. Like it's expected. Have a look. I'm sure I've done it - combining formal and more conversational styles. Where would you say this started? I might go as far back as the start of the so-called New Journalists.
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Post by quaco on Nov 19, 2019 3:55:21 GMT
Re: "I find that" -- "I" has no place in film/music criticism. You should be talking about the art. It's easy to tell one's own experience with it, but it's rarely of any interest or import.
Re cliches in general -- It does seem that when people start to write a critique of something, they go into a certain mode. (I'm guilty of it too, I'm sure.) It's like when you crash into someone's car and you have to write down what happened, you immediately go into legal-speak: "I hereby state that I, James H. Mills, crashed into X's car on the date of 3rd September 2016, and I solemnly owe them the sum of ..."
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