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Post by tory on Aug 26, 2020 14:13:15 GMT
Like any broadly Liberal centrist, when I see people in the USA holding guns I instinctively recoil somewhat.
However, I remember seeing a film about Mid-West Americans where one guy articulated "I like to live my life with the doors of my house open and not having to worry about burglars" and to a certain extent that resonated with me. It strikes me that the Hobbesian world of "a state of nature" is something that Americans think about a lot more than we do in Europe. But then again, we now live here in a world where doors are firmly shut and you lock your doors at night. I personally find that really worrying that is now seen as a norm - that we are closed off and insular. One of the things I really liked about Lockdown (aargh) was that people were outside their doors in their front gardens, there were no cars and people went about their business with their front doors wide open. That world seems to have passed in the UK. Obviously it has long since passed in many parts of the USA, but it appears that there are still many "redoubts" where that kind of existence is still happening.
That's not to say that I'm in broad agreement with the politics of those who maintain that lifestyle, but more that I have some sympathy for them wanting to keep their way of life.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 15:20:05 GMT
I can see where John's coming from. You look at someone like Jacinda Arden - she's the kind of common sense, capable politician our own political system seems incapable of producing. With a lot of male politicians they're too into the power trip, their egos overtake them.
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Post by bungo the mungo on Aug 26, 2020 15:24:20 GMT
they're too into the power trip, their egos overtake them. bites 'preludian' tongue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 15:24:59 GMT
Like any broadly Liberal centrist, when I see people in the USA holding guns I instinctively recoil somewhat. However, I remember seeing a film about Mid-West Americans where one guy articulated "I like to live my life with the doors of my house open and not having to worry about burglars" and to a certain extent that resonated with me. It strikes me that the Hobbesian world of "a state of nature" is something that Americans think about a lot more than we do in Europe. But then again, we now live here in a world where doors are firmly shut and you lock your doors at night. I personally find that really worrying that is now seen as a norm - that we are closed off and insular. One of the things I really liked about Lockdown (aargh) was that people were outside their doors in their front gardens, there were no cars and people went about their business with their front doors wide open. That world seems to have passed in the UK. Obviously it has long since passed in many parts of the USA, but it appears that there are still many "redoubts" where that kind of existence is still happening. That's not to say that I'm in broad agreement with the politics of those who maintain that lifestyle, but more that I have some sympathy for them wanting to keep their way of life. What's that got to do with armed militias shooting people?
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Post by bungo the mungo on Aug 26, 2020 15:31:36 GMT
You look at someone like Jacinda Arden - she's the kind of common sense, capable politician our own political system seems incapable of producing. hear, hear G!
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Post by bungo the mungo on Aug 26, 2020 15:35:07 GMT
by the way, have you seen my 'film quote' thread quiz? i think you might get one or two.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Aug 26, 2020 16:00:40 GMT
I can see where John's coming from. You look at someone like Jacinda Arden - she's the kind of common sense, capable politician our own political system seems incapable of producing. With a lot of male politicians they're too into the power trip, their egos overtake them. Yeah, but, Priti Patel I don't know much about her but I'm not convinced. She does have very nice teeth though
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Aug 26, 2020 16:42:00 GMT
At one time was quite a progressive state, that's the past. It may be the hardest drinking state per capita, mostly a white German heritage; pretty much a Trump bastion of disaffected former industrial workers. I remember lots of problems during the 80s and 90s between whites and Native Americans. It got ugly.
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Post by bungo the mungo on Aug 26, 2020 16:44:48 GMT
thank you for your insight. it all makes sense now.
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Sneelock
god
you're gonna break another heart
Posts: 8,546
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Post by Sneelock on Aug 26, 2020 16:53:54 GMT
anyone who has the good sense to wear one of those Cheese Hats can't be totally beyond redemption.
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Wisconsin
Aug 26, 2020 17:37:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by Reactionary Rage on Aug 26, 2020 17:37:44 GMT
At one time was quite a progressive state, that's the past. It may be the hardest drinking state per capita, mostly a white German heritage; pretty much a Trump bastion of disaffected former industrial workers. I remember lots of problems during the 80s and 90s between whites and Native Americans. It got ugly. Before the last election it’s been mostly a blue state for 40 years though.
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Aug 26, 2020 17:59:37 GMT
At one time was quite a progressive state, that's the past. It may be the hardest drinking state per capita, mostly a white German heritage; pretty much a Trump bastion of disaffected former industrial workers. I remember lots of problems during the 80s and 90s between whites and Native Americans. It got ugly. Before the last election it’s been mostly a blue state for 40 years though. Union power, industrial jobs, no longer there, Democratic doesn't mean they were ''. US progressive era was the 1880-1920s, La Follette Ironically, Minnesota was considered progressive at one time, too, but the Midwest, other than Chicago, Detroit, and maybe Indianapolis are very very very white. Being inclusive usually meant the Germans, Poles, and Swedes let the Irish and Italians in, no thought of race or non Christian religions, very meat and potatoes view point, a whole swath of the country as bland as one huge Levittown. The Nazi march in Skokie didn't happen in a vacuum. The assassinated founder of the American Nazi party, George Lincoln Rockwell (who coined the term 'white power'), was a midwest boy, born in central Illinois.
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Wisconsin
Aug 26, 2020 18:13:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by Reactionary Rage on Aug 26, 2020 18:13:04 GMT
Good for them!
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Sneelock
god
you're gonna break another heart
Posts: 8,546
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Post by Sneelock on Aug 26, 2020 19:28:01 GMT
does he have a statue?
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Post by nathan on Aug 26, 2020 20:05:00 GMT
Minneapolis is extremely progressive. I think it is one of the most progressive per capita in the US, if I recall correctly. And it drove Minnesota politics for decades. But it has always been racist, unfortunately. Notoriously antisemitic a hundred years ago and then extremely segregationist ever since they built two freeways in the 60's that purposely ripped through and destroyed two thriving black communities. The police enforce this segregation and also have done this with impunity for decades. The aftermath is what you see today and what caused such a powder keg of pent up emotions. But Minneapolis isn't the only one like this.
But the rest of Minnesota? Wackadoodle as fuck. Same with Wisconsin. Crazy shitheels wandering the farm wastelands in search of supposed superiority. Most of the mid-west is like this. All the progressive minded kids that grow up in those small farmland communities eventually move to the city. It has created an atmosphere of us vs them in this country. Country-folk against city-folk. I also think that struggle is also loaded with racism and antisemitism. It's true that few black people live in the rural mid-west. Trump knows this and has exploited it for all its worth. It's all one big stew of shit.
This Kenosha thing is extremely disturbing but this has been going on for decades. Centuries. As much as I hate the smart phone pervasiveness, I think history will record their prevalence as a turning point in our culture of racism. Much the same as Dr King knowing that cameras filming dogs ripping at black children who were peacefully protesting would finally turn some damn heads. It's hard to look away and ignore. You will still see people try to rationalize it by trying to find ANYTHING wrong with the victim's past behavior. That is what we have been programmed to do. Still makes you an asshole though.
The only thing that is going to change this is police accountability. I hope none of these shitstains get acquited. Minneapolis is collectively holding its breath.
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