'Changes'

[Mr. FOLLARD]

There are major flaws. Clive Gash FAMOUSLY pointed them out for us here a short while ago.

[fonz]

I really hate this song. I think some Bowie is great, some is groundbreaking and inspiring, but this I truly hate. Bowie’s voice really grates.
I don’t like any of this earlier stuff.
He didn’t get interesting until the mid-late 70s.

[Reactionary Rage]

Aug 9, 2021 18:57:01 GMT Mr. FOLLARD said:

There are major flaws. Clive Gash FAMOUSLY pointed them out for us here a short while ago.

"major flaws"

Please, do tell

[Reactionary Rage]

Aug 8, 2021 16:24:08 GMT ~ / % ? * said:

Exactly, one of the reasons Ronson moved on, "watch that guy, he'll take your stuff". David wasn't a good enough player or musically knowledgeable enough. Every subsequent collaborator was smart enough to demand credit.

The lass bought me a Bowie chordbook so I could learn some of his songs a while back. He used a LOT of chords and odd ones too. No man is an island. George Martin added shit to the Beatles records in the same way Ronson did with Bowie but some cunt had to sit down at a piano or plunk around on a guitar and put those chords and those melodies together.



Bowie reminds me of Lennon in the sense that he seemed to operate in an intuitive, instinctive way that may have been off limits to more technically gifted musicians who are hamstrung by orthodoxies and theory.  There's a happy balance between musical knowledge and musical ignorance if you have the imagination and drive to transcend your own limitations.  Which is not to say either Lennon or Bowie weren't good musicians, they were (Bowie's playing on Diamond Dogs is great, Lennon was a fantastic rhythm guitar player) but they both benefitted from a Macca/Ronson foil too.  

  

[loveless]

His vocal makes this a classic. He goes from that conversational bit in the verses to that downright piercing double tracked "satin and tat" sound in the choruses.

I saw a clip recently of him playing a very modest version of this at the first Glastonbury, and...yeah, really points out how the snap of the record (nice tight, dry rhythm section, expert vocal arrangement) really wakes the whole thing up.

[rayge]

Aug 8, 2021 20:54:21 GMT Mr. FOLLARD said:

And Elton John is (mostly) disliked, whereas Bowie is adored. I wonder how people manage to square the two. If they bother.

Just shrug at them both. Saves time.

[~ / % ? *]

Aug 10, 2021 10:58:50 GMT Reactionary Rage said:

Aug 8, 2021 16:24:08 GMT ~ / % ? * said:

Exactly, one of the reasons Ronson moved on, "watch that guy, he'll take your stuff". David wasn't a good enough player or musically knowledgeable enough. Every subsequent collaborator was smart enough to demand credit.

The lass bought me a Bowie chordbook so I could learn some of his songs a while back. He used a LOT of chords and odd ones too. No man is an island. George Martin added shit to the Beatles records in the same way Ronson did with Bowie but some cunt had to sit down at a piano or plunk around on a guitar and put those chords and those melodies together.



Bowie reminds me of Lennon in the sense that he seemed to operate in an intuitive, instinctive way that may have been off limits to more technically gifted musicians who are hamstrung by orthodoxies and theory.  There's a happy balance between musical knowledge and musical ignorance if you have the imagination and drive to transcend your own limitations.  Which is not to say either Lennon or Bowie weren't good musicians, they were (Bowie's playing on Diamond Dogs is great, Lennon was a fantastic rhythm guitar player) but they both benefitted from a Macca/Ronson foil too.  

  

If it is a piano based book the music is usually transposed with the sung melody line figured in, and is not the actual music as written/recorded. Unless it is tab, it is probably an approximation. Costello is famous for using a lot of chords, Bowie not so much.