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Post by Cousin Lou on Jan 10, 2020 8:38:05 GMT
And that's what he's got over NY, Dylan, Stevie. Love them as much as you like, I don't know if they influenced any fashion movement at their peaks. Pretty sure, swaths of people modelled themselves after Dylan at his peak, in general lifestyle and clothes. To call his outfits fashion is stressing it a bit though. I am not so sure if Bowie had such a huge influence on fashion. Rather than an innovator, the man was a very early adaptor to things that were going on.
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Post by osgood on Jan 10, 2020 8:38:39 GMT
Well, you've singled out the albums which showed him following rather than leading, so I wouldn't disagree with your point. But I think it's inarguable that he's the artist with the single biggest influence over the whole 80s UK pop scene. Adam Ant, Boy George, Spandau Ballet, Duran Duran....and the 'high art' stuff too. Who wasn't touched by what he'd done in the preceding decade? Yes, I have to agree with you on that.
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Post by DarknessFish on Jan 10, 2020 9:45:08 GMT
Seems strange that Dylan is being bundled in as a lesser light, here, I mean if we're talking cultural touchstones who are going to be talked about in 50/100 years time, I think Dylan's the one who has that cross-media, cross-generation appeal. There's probably already more films and books about him than Bowie. Admittedly, most of his post '65 output is poor, but most of Bowie's output was poor, too.
Anyone mentioned Scott Walker yet? Not slight variations of sound disguised by a change of dress; there was a man who was brave enough to change style, not care whether his audience joined him, and increase the quality of his work. Bowie never did anything halfway as radical as his work from Tilt onwards. And Bowie would no doubt agree that he was more important.
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Jan 10, 2020 10:01:28 GMT
But I think it's inarguable that he's the artist with the single biggest influence over the whole 80s UK pop scene. Adam Ant, Boy George, Spandau Ballet, Duran Duran....and the 'high art' stuff too. Who wasn't touched by what he'd done in the preceding decade? Stone Roses, `Jesus and Mary Chain, New Order, lots of people you consider ersatz, whereas that's the adjective I'd apply o Bowie. And, like Willie Nelson, he did come out of a tradition and kick against it, but in stead of country, it was music hall.
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Post by *LARK* on Jan 10, 2020 10:12:56 GMT
But I think it's inarguable that he's the artist with the single biggest influence over the whole 80s UK pop scene. Adam Ant, Boy George, Spandau Ballet, Duran Duran....and the 'high art' stuff too. Who wasn't touched by what he'd done in the preceding decade? Stone Roses, `Jesus and Mary Chain, New Order It'd be difficult to name many others (and I'd forgotten Morrissey, who was hugely, but maybe invisibly inspired by DB). And I think Joy Division took a fair bit from him too - certainly in Peter Hook's book you get that old stuff about the Iggy-Bowie-Lou triumvirate bringing light to a bleak Manc decade. Maybe the Scousers took more from Bowie. Aren't they supposed to be less contrary than the Mancs? Ian McCulloch never missed an opportunity to big up The Dame back in the day.
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Post by *LARK* on Jan 10, 2020 10:15:46 GMT
And yeah, maybe VU fans were more likely to reject Bowie. 'street' over 'art'?
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Post by DarknessFish on Jan 10, 2020 10:21:40 GMT
And yeah, maybe VU fans were more likely to reject Bowie. 'street' over 'art'? Not sure I get that, weren't VU more art than street? More art than Bowie, I'd say.
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Post by *LARK* on Jan 10, 2020 10:25:14 GMT
Lou Reed Street Poet, you know?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 11:11:51 GMT
In terms of "least skippable moments", I would concur that Ziggy and Diamond Dogs are top of the heap. Even the records I play most all have at least ONE test of endurance.
I keep hearing this as the new criticism of Bowie, but in fact his 70s albums are a lot less guilty of this 'patchiness' than just about any artist I can think of. What about The Beatles turds? What about the filler on Stones albums? What about the schmaltz you have to wade through on Stevie Wonder albums.
Should we not just expect this of all artists, even the best ones, as far as albums go. Where is the skippable track on Station to Station or Low, so I'm not sure it's even an accurate criticism of Bowie, but even if we concede it, it puts him in the same company as all other artists. I'm not even an album sort of guy generally, but Bowie is one of the artists who does work across an album.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 11:21:20 GMT
. Anyone mentioned Scott Walker yet? Not slight variations of sound disguised by a change of dress; there was a man who was brave enough to change style, not care whether his audience joined him, and increase the quality of his work. Bowie never did anything halfway as radical as his work from Tilt onwards. And Bowie would no doubt agree that he was more important. He wasn't more important, he just fits your own idealised model of what a musician should be (radical, difficult, experimental, non-commercial)better than Bowie. That's fine, but that's your own subjective criteria.
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Post by *LARK* on Jan 10, 2020 11:22:11 GMT
For me, it's not so much that some tracks are actually BAD, more that - as I said - he PUSHES things a bit too far. The hey-nonny-no shit on HD, for example. 'Time', on AS. 'Wild Is The Wind' on StS.
Sure you'll defend those ones, G, but it's 'undiluted' Bowie and unpalatable for the non-devotees.
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Post by osgood on Jan 10, 2020 11:29:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 11:30:56 GMT
For me, it's not so much that some tracks are actually BAD, more that - as I said - he PUSHES things a bit too far. The hey-nonny-no shit on HD, for example. 'Time', on AS. 'Wild Is The Wind' on StS. Sure you'll defend those ones, G, but it's 'undiluted' Bowie and unpalatable for the non-devotees. I like them ( I probably regard Wild.. as his best ever vocal), but I can see why you wouldn't as they are bit rococo for your tastes. But plenty of people do like 'Time', I think it was Darkness Fish's favourite Bowie track, and it did quite well in the recent poll. I'd say it was divisive rather than objectively bad, in the way 'Maxwell's Silver Hammer' is objectively bad in that most people ( and I know there will always be exceptions) regard it as one of The Beatles' poorest album tracks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 11:32:45 GMT
There are Bowie album tracks I don't care for, but he has a lower 'miss' quota than anyone else I can think of (regarding his classic run anyway).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 12:06:37 GMT
And yeah, maybe VU fans were more likely to reject Bowie. 'street' over 'art'? Not sure I get that, weren't VU more art than street? More art than Bowie, I'd say. Sure they were.
There was nothing particularly ''arty' in Bowie's background, save for a brief time with Lindsey Kemp. Whereas The Velvets had deep connections with the whole avant-garde classical world of La Monte Young and others. Early members included radical artists like Walter De Maria and Angus Maclise. And all this before they even met Warhol.
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