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Post by "BING E BONG" on May 15, 2023 22:13:05 GMT
There was a good Netflix doc not so long back that pretty much established (well to my satisfaction anyway) he was killed, although probably accidently. They said it probably happened at a trough because he had rain water inside him rather than chlorine swimming pool water, which I'd not heard before. Don't know if you read the article, but Broomfield has said he's not particularly interested about the stuff surrounding his death, so much as his life. that was borne out by this latest thing - there was one, quite straightforward point of view, swiftly related |
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Post by "BING E BONG" on May 15, 2023 22:15:00 GMT
The biggest revelation was the intriguing snippet of Brian's song, it sounded pretty good! What revelation? He played bits of 'Paint It Black', 'Ruby Tuesday', and 'Little Red Rooster' through his Mac speakers and mimed along to Brian's parts. The only interesting thing was stopped after he turned to his assistant asking if he should tell the story about Brian and Jimi - and stopped right there. |
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Post by Stacy Heydon on May 15, 2023 22:21:05 GMT
The biggest revelation was the intriguing snippet of Brian's song, it sounded pretty good! What revelation? He played bits of 'Paint It Black', 'Ruby Tuesday', and 'Little Red Rooster' through his Mac speakers and mimed along to Brian's parts. The only interesting thing was stopped after he turned to his assistant asking if he should tell the story about Brian and Jimi - and stopped right there. I didn't say Bill played it. There was a twenty second excerpt of one of Brian's demos. I don't know where it came from, the documentary didn't say. We heard a verse and then the beginning of a second verse, before Brian stopped and swore. It was a bit Byrds like. |
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Post by "BING E BONG" on May 15, 2023 22:27:25 GMT
Oh that! sorry!
played through a reel-to-reel? yes, that was interesting
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Sneelock
god
it's so easy to look down from above
Posts: 9,209
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Post by Sneelock on May 15, 2023 23:17:20 GMT
Not much that I didn’t know already tbh although I wasn’t fully aware how vile Pallenberg was. I'll bite. how vile WAS she??? |
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Post by Stacy Heydon on May 15, 2023 23:20:50 GMT
Not much that I didn’t know already tbh although I wasn’t fully aware how vile Pallenberg was. I'll bite. how vile WAS she??? She stole one of Mick's chocolate biscuits! |
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Post by Reactionary Rage on May 16, 2023 6:33:39 GMT
Not much that I didn’t know already tbh although I wasn’t fully aware how vile Pallenberg was. I'll bite. how vile WAS she??? The first time she meets Jones he’s sat on a couch with his gf, who is also the mother of his kid, and she’s All Over Him making it perfectly clear she’s trying to steal him. I mean who does that? She “brings out his dark side” apparently and they enjoy spiking people at parties and sneering at everyone not as “cool” as they are. One of Jones’s exes turns up at their flat and they don’t let her in, instead they stand on the balcony laughing at the poor woman to humiliate her. She clearly had a big influence on Jones who is also a shit too of course but she comes across as one of these social climber types who targets people and uses them. There’s something almost sociopathic about her and Jones but it's not a surprise they were so into each other. They seemed to share a dark side and they seemed to mirror each other. |
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Post by Reactionary Rage on May 16, 2023 6:41:19 GMT
I'll bite. how vile WAS she??? She stole one of Mick's chocolate biscuits! Mars bar surely? |
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Post by Reactionary Rage on May 16, 2023 9:12:57 GMT
There was a good Netflix doc not so long back that pretty much established (well to my satisfaction anyway) he was killed, although probably accidently. They said it probably happened at a trough because he had rain water inside him rather than chlorine swimming pool water, which I'd not heard before. This is the builder fella right? Are you saying it was manslaughter? |
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Post by Stacy Heydon on May 16, 2023 12:43:43 GMT
There was a good Netflix doc not so long back that pretty much established (well to my satisfaction anyway) he was killed, although probably accidently. They said it probably happened at a trough because he had rain water inside him rather than chlorine swimming pool water, which I'd not heard before. This is the builder fella right? Are you saying it was manslaughter? Yes, but the whole thing is as dodgy as fuck. It's quite likely local plod were bought of, which is the real reason, imo, that the files on the case are under lock and key for many decades yet. This isn't just conspiracy theory, there is a lot of evidence to back this up. |
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Post by riggers on May 17, 2023 13:28:33 GMT
I cranked up the iplayer and watched this last night. Thought it was bobbins overall.
Firstly, why are music docs so bad these days? Seriously, all of those BBC4, Sky Arts etc type things have really gone downhill. I don't know if it's just down to the cost of obtaining original recordings, but it seems a common thing now that either cover versions played by the artist in question or worse, some generic soundalike shit gets used in the background. Do they think we won't notice?
The only Stones originals played, if I'm not mistaken, were a live 'Satisfaction' and those bits of 'Ruby Tuesday' and 'Paint It Black' played on Bill's computer..
The rest of the Stones music played was just all the early covers, and at one point, some of the aforementioned session musician crap, designed to sound vaguely like 'Honky Tonk Women'. I very nearly turned off at that point.
Also, during a version of Chuck Berry's 'Carol', Keith's lead guitar was inaudible, the footage being shown was from the 1966 Albert Hall shows, which jarred a bit, and at one point, the film was reversed, so that Brian and Keith appeared to be left handed. Just shoddy.
On the subject of Brian, there was nothing there I didn't already know, but it was interesting to hear from so many of his exes. He was clearly a charmer, but was also a borderline psychopath/narcissist from a dysfunctional family and with a bit of a Napoleon complex.
I'm a huge fan of the Stones 66-67 era, when they explored that whole baroque/psychedelic sound. Brian was a big part of driving it forward, but I'm sorry, I'm not having this 'musical genius who could play any instrument he picked up' thing.
I'm sure the other musicians on here have done similar stuff. My main instrument is guitar, but I can do a bit on bass, drums, piano, harmonica, ukulele...I also used to work for my brother in law selling musical gear online, so have acquired all sorts of random stuff. In the last couple of years, I've played recorder and glockenspiel on tracks of mine....I'm not saying this to show off (and I'm useless at most other things..), most times, I'll learn a part on an unfamiliar instrument, record it and then forget it. This is what Brian did. I'm sure if I had a dulcimer or sitar lying around, with enough time, I'd be able to come up with something on those, as could many others I expect.
One thing he did have going for him was an encyclopedic knowledge and deep passion for blues and he was probably the only British musician who could play slide to to that standard.
The other thing was obviously his looks and charisma. My sister is still obsessed with him. He definitely had an 'aura', at a time when Mick was finding his feet as a frontman and Keith was just a slightly gormless looking guitarist with massive ears. His influence spread quickly too. Within a short time, you had Keith Relf and most of the Byrds copying that hairstyle. If he'd looked like say Gerry Marsden, would people still be talking about him?
That Hendrix collaboration is well known and has been on youtube for years, so I don't know why Bill was talking about it as some big secret. And that snippet of Brian's song they played was rubbish, just embarrassing, lyrics about 'I know all your likes and dislikes...' cringey. And not melodically remarkable in any way. No wonder he never presented the band with any of his efforts.
And I thought Broomfield missed a trick by not exploring the shady circumstances surrounding Brian's death. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, especially ones about musician's deaths, but this has been well documented over the years, the autopsy showed low levels of alcohol and no drugs in Brian's system and that builder guy, Frank Thorogood, allegedly confessed to 'doing Brian' on his death bed.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on May 17, 2023 14:02:35 GMT
I agree. There's been a lot of romanticising about Jones over the years and people projecting things onto him. Understandable I guess but you can appreciate his contributions without going overboard but his contributions during those years WERE great and he did really add something special to those records. You can recognise that without calling him a genius. It's a shame he didn't seem able to write songs but I imagine if he kept his shit together and left the Stones he could have been the kind of sideman who turned up on other peoples records and made 'em consistently better and/or he could have ended up doing weird, soundtracky stuff in keeping with the times. I can totally see that.
He did have an aura though but I've never understood the sex appeal really. An ex LOVED him and thought he was beautiful but I've never seen it myself plus he was a short arse. He Did have some beautiful girlfriends of course and there was definitely a look he went for.
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rayge
Administrator
hopeful
Posts: 9,266
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Post by rayge on May 17, 2023 14:07:54 GMT
I also watched it last night, and I was impressed. Most of the other people who have commented on here have talked about hearing nothing new, or, like riggers, the sound quality/qualities of the sound. This meant nothing in particular to me, because visuals are where it's at, and the film of BJ as a schoolboy, the pics with his family, and the selection of stuff from the 1960s virtually all of it in colour, was top notch. I remember someone wrote that all Nick B's documentarties were essentially about himself, and this was true to an extent here, too, not so much in the voiceover, but in the editing and choice of visual material. As he is just one year younger than me, it was essentially about my 1960s, too, and I revelled in that. I also liked that, although he had done several interviews, he didn't show the talking heads (apart from Bill W, who had a hand in the production of the thing, and one or two others), but strung the anecdotes over footage from the time.
As to Brian's death, I get his pov completely: maybe he was murdered, or manslaughtered, maybe he just drowned, but it doesn't actually matter. All this fevered reaching after 'the truth' offends my Romantic sensibilities, while all the main actors are dead or gone now, and the fact that BJ was in a death spiral from about 1964 on, and was a serious alcoholic (I don't know if anyone else pressed pause on his birth certificate, but the third cause listed was fatty degeneration of the liver) meant that if he was, indeed, feloniously killed, it didn't mean the world was robbed of a great amount of material from a phoenix career.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 13:34:12 GMT
Not just Jones, but it always confuses me when proper cunts still get described as sweet. Someone probably said the same thing about Lennon.
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Post by "BING E BONG" on Mar 29, 2024 14:08:20 GMT
I'll bite. how vile WAS she??? She stole one of Mick's chocolate biscuits! |
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