two live things

["BING E BONG"]

(music starts at 0:39)







Bono wants to be there. Curtis, maybe not.



Were they both making virtues out of their limitations?

Which performance do you think is more powerful? 

Which is more palatable?

Which band's success seems more surprising?

[fange]

I think i will be in the minority here by saying that U2 win this one very comfortably.

I love both bands and both songs, but Shadowplay and this clip are very early in JDs time and you can feel it. It sounds good but also a bit tentative, a band coiled and not yet sprung fully. Their sound though, love it. U2 by Red Rocks though was a band on fire, and TEC is one of the prime movers off Boy, so it takes off brilliantly in the live setting.

The presenter's last comment in the JD clip... damn, that is cold as ice, man.

[Stacy Heydon]

Sept 19, 2024 10:33:59 GMT fange said:

The presenter's last comment in the JD clip... damn, that is cold as ice, man.

That's Tony Wilson!

[Stacy Heydon]

It's not comparing like for like.
But Joy Division are more interesting on every level. U2 mean nothing.

[fange]

Sept 19, 2024 10:54:24 GMT Stacy Heydon said:

Sept 19, 2024 10:33:59 GMT fange said:

The presenter's last comment in the JD clip... damn, that is cold as ice, man.

That's Tony Wilson!

Sorry, i plead Australianess!

[fange]

Sept 19, 2024 10:59:20 GMT Stacy Heydon said:

It's not comparing like for like.
But Joy Division are more interesting on very level. U2 mean nothing.

To you, G, sure! To me, they meant a lot.

[Stacy Heydon]

Sept 19, 2024 11:06:08 GMT fange said:

Sept 19, 2024 10:59:20 GMT Stacy Heydon said:

It's not comparing like for like.
But Joy Division are more interesting on very level. U2 mean nothing.

To you, G, sure! To me, they meant a lot.

It's entirely performative though. What we're talking about here is the difference between showbiz and art essentially. There's a place for showbiz but we should recognise it as what it is.

[fange]

Again, i know they are to you, G! U2 and Bono are easy targets for this kind of condescension, and they have jumped the shark loooooong gao, but to me early U2 especially were more than just a performance. They wrote some great songs that really connected to me as a teenager, and in my 50s i think i like Boy more than ever. So don't come over all snobby with the "showbiz vs art" argument here coz I ain't buying it.

["BING E BONG"]

Sept 19, 2024 11:12:38 GMT Stacy Heydon said:

What we're talking about here is the difference between showbiz and art essentially.

Interesting.

i'd say they're both showbiz, but in different forms. Calling one 'art' but not the other shows your preference but I don't know if it would stand up in the COURT OF BOB GELDOFe

[Stacy Heydon]

Sept 19, 2024 12:27:19 GMT fange said:

Again, i know they are to you, G! U2 and Bono are easy targets for this kind of condescension, and they have jumped the shark loooooong gao, but to me early U2 especially were more than just a performance. They wrote some great songs that really connected to me as a teenager, and in my 50s i think i like Boy more than ever. So don't come over all snobby with the "showbiz vs art" argument here coz I ain't buying it.

Probably because you were a young teenager when you fell in love with them, had you been a few years older you probably wouldn't have quite the same level of engagement. They're a classic 'gateway' band in that sense.

[fearlessfreap]

I actually enjoyed the first two U2 albums. By the time War came out they became a bit problematic. They went from new wave (though a bombastic new wave) to proto-arena rock with War. It was still ok, but the writing was on the wall. Red Rocks is where the wheels came off and Bono became the oaf we all love to hate. His monitor climbing flag waving ridiculousness and his mullet that most likely inspired Jaromir Jagr's was funny for five minutes, but soon became a major irritant.

Joy Division is embryonic and would get better soon, but they still win this one.

[DarknessFish]

I get the art vs showbiz thing, but in this comparison of two live efforts it's more music vs performance. Perhaps if the footage was of JD at a proper gig, they might have been less restrained, if they'd had U2's crowds they might've been monitor-straddling cocks, too. Musically, U2 are sharper with a much better vocalist. You could even argue that they're actually forging ahead, creating a sound that The Cult would later adopt to similar audiences.

But it's all empty to me. Perhaps it's all about the euphoria, perhaps that's where the art is. But Joy Division seem much more purposeful, much more distinct, they properly reflect the mood of late 70s Manc. The anger of punk has subsided to an enervated melancholy, it's all dark and light and nervous energy. I could listen to Shadowplay 10 times in a row and still be moved. I could listen to The Electric Co. 5 times, and not notice it was even there, have no recollection of it.

[Stacy Heydon]

Sept 19, 2024 14:37:24 GMT fearlessfreap said:

Joy Division is embryonic and would get better soon, but they still win this one.

Better in what way? I don't really view this as embryonic, it seems fully formed to me, the embodiment of what made JD so exciting, with its pulsing propulsion and intensity. But then I hold 'Shadowplay' in high regard as one of their best tracks.

[fange]

For me Atmosphere/Dead Souls is JD at their peak. Again, NOTHING wrong with the debut, i absolutely adore it. I was playing it just the other day in fact.

And i have been moved to ecstatic euphoria by The Electric Co. hundreds of times over the years. It's full of desperation and pain and hope, and still makes me want to jump around like only a spotty 13-year old can. I love it without reservation.

[Stacy Heydon]

Sept 19, 2024 15:50:28 GMT fange said:

For me Atmosphere/Dead Souls is JD at their peak. 

Well I don't disagree there, but it's not as if those two tracks leave the others completely in their shadow. Shadowplay belongs in the roll call of great JD tracks.