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racism
Sept 25, 2020 15:14:45 GMT
Post by cousinlou on Sept 25, 2020 15:14:45 GMT
We kinda knew, Snee. But we also thought it was just the natural order of things. I’m reminded of a fleeting thought I caught myself having just 4 or 5 years ago. I was working, driving to a client’s house. I was going through a neighborhood that was mostly low-income housing - and I was trying to find the correct address on one of these buildings. Anyway - while I was trying to split my concentration on my driving and the addresses, an older Latino women stepped out into traffic in front of me. I was able to avoid hitting her, but my almost reptilian reaction to having almost killed her was that she probably wasn’t someone very important anyhow. Of course, the decent thinking part of me was mortified that such an ugly thought could even live inside me. But there it was. A lifetime of accepting characters like Mr. Yunioshi and a million other characters like him had implanted a human pecking order deep in my sub-conscious. It is still there. We internalized that shit. Who are the 'We' ?
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racism
Sept 25, 2020 15:43:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by daveythefatboy on Sept 25, 2020 15:43:18 GMT
Everyone but you, Lou. You’re exempt.
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Sneelock
god
Better than Washington...
Posts: 8,579
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racism
Sept 25, 2020 16:17:47 GMT
Post by Sneelock on Sept 25, 2020 16:17:47 GMT
I mean people who lived through the era. I understand we are an elite group which is why I don't mind waving my dick at us. you ever try waving your dick at yourself? you should try it sometime!
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racism
Sept 25, 2020 16:39:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by cousinlou on Sept 25, 2020 16:39:49 GMT
Everyone but you, Lou. You’re exempt. You’re damn right I am exempt. And, I think you’ll have a hard time finding any people on this board who’d feel included in your ‘we’.
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racism
Sept 25, 2020 16:57:20 GMT
Post by sloopjohnc on Sept 25, 2020 16:57:20 GMT
I don't know whether to admire Barkley for giving this opinion as black man (regardless if i disagree or agree with him), or think he should just keep it to himself to because this pushback against him was obviously gonna happen and it's just not worth it. I don't think this is the first time he's gone against the grain either. linkBarkley and Shaq are honest, I'll give them that. However, the police response was 35 shots, I believe. There were other alternatives.
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toomanyhatz
god
I've met him/her. He/she's great!!
Posts: 3,243
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Post by toomanyhatz on Sept 25, 2020 16:59:50 GMT
Everyone but you, Lou. You’re exempt. You’re damn right I am exempt. And, I think you’ll have a hard time finding any people on this board who’d feel included in your ‘we’. *Raises hand.* I will confirm that I have felt that exact same thing - maybe not the same scenario, but one where I found myself judging someone based entirely (or at least primarily) on ethnicity or country of origin? Absolutely. Repeatedly. I'd be really surprised if it's that rare. And yes, I think of myself as "not racist" by-and-large. The point is that stuff's in our subconscious. I disagree with Davey on plenty of stuff (more music than "life stuff," generally) but I think he's spot on here.
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Post by sloopjohnc on Sept 25, 2020 17:07:21 GMT
I've told this story before, but here goes. . .
After work, I was buying some smokes or something at the local liquor/convenience store before I went home.
As I got out of my car, a teenager in dreads and baggy pants approached me. I thought, "Here goes, he's going to ask me to buy him a forty."
He said, "I just wanted to tell you your gas cap is hanging off your car." I had filled up on the way home.
I wish I could say it was just a teenage bias, but I'd be lying. But that incident taught me a lesson.
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Post by daveythefatboy on Sept 25, 2020 17:17:30 GMT
Everyone but you, Lou. You’re exempt. You’re damn right I am exempt. And, I think you’ll have a hard time finding any people on this board who’d feel included in your ‘we’. Here’s the thing. I don’t know you, I’m not going to go down the rabbit hole of your individual attitudes. I’m simply going to say, the exact internalized hierarchies of value that I am describing are evident in the societal structures and assumptions we accept as normal. And by we... I mean we.
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racism
Sept 25, 2020 20:58:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by cousinlou on Sept 25, 2020 20:58:15 GMT
You’re damn right I am exempt. And, I think you’ll have a hard time finding any people on this board who’d feel included in your ‘we’. Here’s the thing. I don’t know you, I’m not going to go down the rabbit hole of your individual attitudes. I’m simply going to say, the exact internalized hierarchies of value that I am describing are evident in the societal structures and assumptions we accept as normal. And by we... I mean we. Let me enlighten you. I am a white male with four white kids. Along with them I raised a black stepdaughter. Everyday, socalled ‘casual’ racism, is not a thing I am unfamiliar with. And, i am aware that sort of racism is widespread. (and not just in whites, but that's besides the point.) The thing you described though is nothing I recognise and I doubt there are a lot of people who’s first thought after such an incident as you described is ‘ thank god it’s a lesser specie’
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Post by cousinlou on Sept 25, 2020 21:00:55 GMT
I've told this story before, but here goes. . . After work, I was buying some smokes or something at the local liquor/convenience store before I went home. As I got out of my car, a teenager in dreads and baggy pants approached me. I thought, "Here goes, he's going to ask me to buy him a forty." He said, "I just wanted to tell you your gas cap is hanging off your car." I had filled up on the way home. I wish I could say it was just a teenage bias, but I'd be lying. But that incident taught me a lesson. That is not racism but stereo typing. Had the guy worn a suit, what then? Would he have worn the same outfit but was white with tatoos on his face, would your impulse have been different??
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Post by hippopotamus on Sept 25, 2020 21:09:29 GMT
I think I get it. I've often tried to tell myself I'm not racist and the song "everyone's a little bit racist" is silly. In the past I've told myself that I've known racist people and growing up through the end of apartheid in South Africa I can recognise it better than maybe other people who haven't had to be as vigilant.
I think Davey's story is most telling that he remembers it, and he's owning up to it. We (we!) All do have wacky thoughts, and thoughts that can be incongruent with what we truly believe. When I see an open window I OFTEN feel I should just jump out of it. Absolutely no reason to do so. No belief that I should be defenestrated. Still, our brains make connections with things that go together and sometimes things come up as thoughts as something we've learned to associate with something else... We don't even know why. I think that was the point.
I think it's brave to admit and re-examine. I've realised I need to do the same. We may not be the bad guys, but we still have reparations to make.
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Post by daveythefatboy on Sept 25, 2020 22:39:22 GMT
Here’s the thing. I don’t know you, I’m not going to go down the rabbit hole of your individual attitudes. I’m simply going to say, the exact internalized hierarchies of value that I am describing are evident in the societal structures and assumptions we accept as normal. And by we... I mean we. Let me enlighten you. I am a white male with four white kids. Along with them I raised a black stepdaughter. Everyday, socalled ‘casual’ racism, is not a thing I am unfamiliar with. And, i am aware that sort of racism is widespread. (and not just in whites, but that's besides the point.) The thing you described though is nothing I recognise and I doubt there are a lot of people who’s first thought after such an incident as you described is ‘ thank god it’s a lesser specie’ I’ll take you at your word about your own thinking process. But what country do you live in? Are people of color over represented in its prisons? Are they noticeably unequal in terms of generational wealth? Do they lag in educational attainment or employment? Are they scapegoated politically and/or the subject of police brutality? I ask all of this, because unless none of this is true or unless you have dedicated yourself to activism in order to end these things - you accept living in a society that is premised on the kind of hierarchy I caught myself believing in. So it really doesn’t matter if you have the bad thought. If you live with it all around you and allow yourself to see it as normal, you’ve internalized it.
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racism
Sept 27, 2020 13:59:21 GMT
Post by cousinlou on Sept 27, 2020 13:59:21 GMT
Let me enlighten you. I am a white male with four white kids. Along with them I raised a black stepdaughter. Everyday, socalled ‘casual’ racism, is not a thing I am unfamiliar with. And, i am aware that sort of racism is widespread. (and not just in whites, but that's besides the point.) The thing you described though is nothing I recognise and I doubt there are a lot of people who’s first thought after such an incident as you described is ‘ thank god it’s a lesser specie’ I’ll take you at your word about your own thinking process. But what country do you live in? Are people of color over represented in its prisons? Are they noticeably unequal in terms of generational wealth? Do they lag in educational attainment or employment? Are they scapegoated politically and/or the subject of police brutality? I ask all of this, because unless none of this is true or unless you have dedicated yourself to activism in order to end these things - you accept living in a society that is premised on the kind of hierarchy I caught myself believing in. So it really doesn’t matter if you have the bad thought. If you live with it all around you and allow yourself to see it as normal, you’ve internalized it. I think the main flaw in your thinking is to assume the rest of the western world is basically the same as the US. A big difference is obviously EU emigration is a product of various peoples wanting to move here. I struggle to think of any examples where part of our current European population of immigrants were brought here by force and under slavery. I don't think it exists. Successive waves of voluntary immigration assimilated, albeit usually only with the 2nd or 3rd generation and not without struggle of the first generations. I live in the Netherlands where 25% of the population has an immigration background. The city I was born in, Rotterdam, has an immigrant population of 51.5%. I demonstrated to you before (in this thread or another) that whatever institutional racism exists, it doesn't show up in Dutch statistics on education. ( the same as in US statistics) In Universities, 38% of the population has an immigration background. Clearly a higher portion that you would expect from the demographics of the overall Dutch population. Our jails are populated by 2/3 of people with immigrant backgrounds. What does it mean? It's tempting to think there is a higher power (institutional racism) that causes POC's to outnumber white Americans in jails. And as far as I am concerned this may very well be true. ( there are examples of that) But what do we say about the larger number of POC's in Universities then ? Are they getting a free pass OR are they simply there because they work harder and are more motivated? Why would the former be necessarily a product of the racist powers that be and the latter the product of individual choices?
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Sneelock
god
Better than Washington...
Posts: 8,579
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racism
Sept 27, 2020 14:14:53 GMT
Post by Sneelock on Sept 27, 2020 14:14:53 GMT
IMO the way things like “The war on drugs” & “3 strikes” are enforced has a lot to do with it.
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racism
Sept 27, 2020 14:42:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by tory on Sept 27, 2020 14:42:40 GMT
African children here in the UK routinely perform very well in education and most go onto higher education. A higher percentage do than white working class children.
Is it because of their cultural upbringing and manifestations (ie most traditional African societies are socially Conservative and push education) or some other factor?
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