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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on May 15, 2020 11:14:40 GMT
The reverence can be off-putting. But 'scraps of ideas' doesn't do the films justice - and anyway it isn't necessarily a bad thing, as far as I'm concerned.
Just because they don't have conventional structures that doesn't make them less worthwhile. What do you want from a film? They're great to look at (primary colours!), there are surprises, fun scenes where people dance, odd dialogues, shoot-outs, sombre voiceovers.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on May 15, 2020 11:16:55 GMT
I'll confess I find pretty much all, with the odd exception, of those European auteurs overrated now. Even Godard, whom I used to defend, isn't that good. The American new wave stuff from the 60s and 70s still stands up.
I've never been fussed about Godard although I do think Le Mepris is great. I've always found him a bit hard going.
The ones that are really overrated to me are Antonioni and Godard (maybe Truffaut too). I think the Antonioni's films especially with all that middle class ennui and isolation are very much a product of their time and it feels a bit like "Ok, I get it, we're all lonely and isolated and desperately searching for meaning". I do think The Passenger is great though and I should watch Blow Up again.
The likes of Bergman and Fellini continue to grow for me though. I just find them entertaining in a way that I don't with Godard etc. Same with Bunuel who has the "intellectual" stuff but entertains too.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 11:50:03 GMT
The reverence can be off-putting. But 'scraps of ideas' doesn't do the films justice - and anyway it isn't necessarily a bad thing, as far as I'm concerned. Just because they don't have conventional structures that doesn't make them less worthwhile. What do you want from a film? They're great to look at (primary colours!), there are surprises, fun scenes where people dance, odd dialogues, shoot-outs, sombre voiceovers. I just don't think it adds up to too much. And for every imaginative moment, you've also got scenes that are pointless or too drawn out or just rather childish ( the scene where they parody American machismo for example). This doesn't make Godard worthless, but it does mean his elevated position as this cultural titan should be challenged more robustly than it's often been in the past.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on May 15, 2020 11:58:34 GMT
Yeah, fair enough.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 12:37:05 GMT
I think with Nouvelle Vague, the guys that came a bit before - Melville or Clouzot say - or a bit after like Louis Malle are better and more interesting.
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Post by DarknessFish on May 15, 2020 19:30:53 GMT
Jacques Becker would be my namedrop into the overlooked French cinema list.
Admittedly, I've only seen one film, Le Trou, but it's good to have someone up your sleeve to drop in any random discussion. Le Trou is genuinely awesome, btw.
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Post by Sneelock on May 15, 2020 22:12:12 GMT
why watch movies at all when a stick properly applied to dirt can do so much to calm the mind.
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Post by jeffk on May 19, 2020 4:32:09 GMT
Last Year at Marienbad Celine and Julie Go Boating Black Moon Persona Stalker
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Post by Sneelock on May 19, 2020 9:08:49 GMT
Et Tu, Jeff k?
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on May 19, 2020 9:15:14 GMT
Last Year at Marienbad Celine and Julie Go Boating Black Moon Persona Stalker Loved Persona, gave up on Stalker about half an hour in. Haven't seen the others. Have you seen any Bergman you really enjoyed, Jeff?
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Post by jeffk on May 19, 2020 17:46:07 GMT
Last Year at Marienbad Celine and Julie Go Boating Black Moon Persona Stalker Loved Persona, gave up on Stalker about half an hour in. Haven't seen the others. Have you seen any Bergman you really enjoyed, Jeff? I'm not a big Bergman fan but I did enjoy The Seventh Seal, Hour of the Wolf and the Virgin Spring. I probably need to spend more time with him and I'll give Persona another chance.
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Post by jeffk on May 19, 2020 17:48:03 GMT
I think people only pretend to like Stalker because they think they have to if they want to be thought of as a serious movie buff.
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Post by Sneelock on May 19, 2020 21:35:22 GMT
really? that's so weird. I've noticed it's reputation growing over the years. I myself considered that a good thing.
look, nobody enjoys peeing on the busts of the masters as much as I do. I've never seen "Black Moon" but otherwise I think every movie on that list has an awful lot going for it.
Stalker makes the top of my head itch. the Tarkovsky movies I like do that. I'm not sure why they make my head itch but they do. I'm not even sure if it's a feeling that I like but not a lot of films do that. I respect that.
same with "Celine and Julie..." I've only watched it a couple of times. I didn't notice it making the top of my head itch but I'm pretty sure I scratched my head after watching it both times. I'm not sure I liked it but it's a singular film. it catches the time and the place it was made. I'm fairly certain that people will be scratching their heads as long as people keep watching it.
I understand these "piss on the busts of the masters" threads. not everybody responds to the same things. it can make for lively discussions. unlike a lot of people on the board, I am not an accomplished creative person so I guess I get a vicarious buzz off things that seem to have a lot of personality.
"Persona" fills the frame with faces in a way that is nearly as imitated as a guy in a pancho squinting his eyes to ocarina music. I think there's a reason for that.
I enjoy lovingly crafting bitchy things to say as much as the next guy. I guess I just think that most "Art House Classics" deserve to be hung on those imaginary walls for one reason or another.
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Post by jeffk on May 20, 2020 4:07:49 GMT
Giving Persona another go. Wish me luck!
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 11:42:07 GMT
I found Persona pretty dull and dreary.
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