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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2020 15:06:47 GMT
Well Davey while praising the fabs ahead of the Velvets you forgot that Reed did the same. It's a big so what. Music is better when the artist writes for themselves. That is what rock and roll is.
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Post by DarknessFish on Sept 25, 2020 15:10:38 GMT
Well , to my ears at least. Newman wrote songs for the like of Kermit the frog to cover and Pixar/Disney talking animals.Zevon ? I doubt anyone on here has a single record by him , if anything at all.(waits for the inevitable). The point is - these guys were professional songwriters before they were performers. That’s a thing that has largely gone away. Maybe a thing that you do don’t and/or don’t value. But it changed music in general when artists became self-contained. But professional songwriters still exist, and to a large extent dominate the charts these days still. The style of music may have changed, the impact of the charts may have changed, but it's more Tin Pan Alley than ever in the pop world, isn't it?
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Post by sloopjohnc on Sept 25, 2020 15:18:06 GMT
I worked with a technical writer doing some manuals for me a few years ago whose son was a songwriter for R&B artists. He was 21 or 22 and was up for a couple Grammys.
I'm sure there are lots of folks in Nashville still writing songs for artists.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Sept 25, 2020 15:23:41 GMT
Well Davey while praising the fabs ahead of the Velvets you forgot that Reed did the same. It's a big so what. Music is better when the artist writes for themselves. That is what rock and roll is. I'm not sure that's what rock n roll is. Artists need an audience and I think there is a balance to be struck between artistic integrity and artists doing their own thang but with an eye on the commercial and selling records too. When you remove the commercial aspect the music often suffers as a result but there are always exceptions.
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tory
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Post by tory on Sept 25, 2020 15:31:02 GMT
Disco was codified and commoditised as a product very quickly, which has always been an issue for its perception. Things were "discofied" early on for dancefloors - like, say, the star wars theme music.
That didn't happen to Punk until a couple of decades later with Green Day, Blink 182 etc, who were an acceptable face. It took culture 15-20 years to digest it, but it got there in the end.
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Post by daveythefatboy on Sept 25, 2020 15:31:26 GMT
Well Davey while praising the fabs ahead of the Velvets you forgot that Reed did the same. It's a big so what. Music is better when the artist writes for themselves. That is what rock and roll is. Two different conversations. I’m not attempting to elevate the professional songwriter particularly. But pull away from the individual names and look at the larger picture. We just don’t have songs of the same harmonic weight as we used to have. Songwriting ultimately became the doodles in somebody’s poetry notebook.
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tory
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Post by tory on Sept 25, 2020 15:35:13 GMT
Ironically I'm more attracted to the songs in Punk than Disco. The latter is all about the groove and production for me.
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Post by daveythefatboy on Sept 25, 2020 15:40:47 GMT
And again... I’m not just talking about songwriting. I’m talking about the Wrecking Crew, and The Funk Brothers, and The Mar-Kays - and all of the people who used to come together collaboratively to elevate the music we heard.
Somewhere along the way there was this mythos that emerged that four primitive teens could dispense with all of that by simply rolling tape and barreling through.
And of course - that did happen a few times, and it WAS glorious and liberating. But then we kept trying to make lightning strike to increasingly dull results.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Sept 25, 2020 15:47:54 GMT
I have never agreed with you more.
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Post by daveythefatboy on Sept 25, 2020 15:49:30 GMT
Don’t stress it. I’ll say something to aggravate you soon enough.
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Post by daveythefatboy on Sept 25, 2020 16:01:29 GMT
The point is - these guys were professional songwriters before they were performers. That’s a thing that has largely gone away. Maybe a thing that you do don’t and/or don’t value. But it changed music in general when artists became self-contained. But professional songwriters still exist, and to a large extent dominate the charts these days still. The style of music may have changed, the impact of the charts may have changed, but it's more Tin Pan Alley than ever in the pop world, isn't it? Sort of. It’s like that line I described earlier from psychedelia to disco. The mechanics were similar. Both were about constructing a sound in the studio. But the intention of one was to take the listener on a psychedelic journey, and the intention of the latter was to make a commercial product. There are roughly three kinds of professional songwriters today. You’ve got Max Martin and a host of Max Martin wannabes constructing product for the top 40 - often by committee. You’ve got hip-hop artists finding a particular beat and adding lyrics on top. Finally, you’ve got country music songwriters trying to crack the country charts puzzle. Anyone else doing anything else is pretty much a niche operator. What there really isn’t anymore, is a market for interesting songs.
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Post by Sneelock on Sept 25, 2020 16:13:31 GMT
that depends, of course, in what you're interested in. lots of people are interested in Wet Ass Pussy.
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Post by daveythefatboy on Sept 25, 2020 16:14:17 GMT
As a song?
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Post by Sneelock on Sept 25, 2020 16:21:23 GMT
whatever gets you through the night.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2020 16:55:28 GMT
But professional songwriters still exist, and to a large extent dominate the charts these days still. The style of music may have changed, the impact of the charts may have changed, but it's more Tin Pan Alley than ever in the pop world, isn't it? Sort of. It’s like that line I described earlier from psychedelia to disco. The mechanics were similar. Both were about constructing a sound in the studio. But the intention of one was to take the listener on a psychedelic journey, and the intention of the latter was to make a commercial product. There are roughly three kinds of professional songwriters today. You’ve got Max Martin and a host of Max Martin wannabes constructing product for the top 40 - often by committee. You’ve got hip-hop artists finding a particular beat and adding lyrics on top. Finally, you’ve got country music songwriters trying to crack the country charts puzzle. Anyone else doing anything else is pretty much a niche operator. What there really isn’t anymore, is a market for interesting songs. Well ok , apart from motown, which artists since Dylan showed the way from the mid sixties onwards who don't write songs are actually any good? How many great albums are not artist penned. Looks to me that self penned songs have been the mainstay for decades.
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