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Post by fonz on Dec 11, 2022 13:14:52 GMT
I think you’re correct. Nailing his colours to the mast in that Wilburys thing was about the least rock n roll thing he could have done. Awful stuff
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loveless
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Post by loveless on Dec 11, 2022 14:38:02 GMT
Maybe..he's kind of like the US version of Dexy's in that regard, although I don't think the Brits hold him in derision, just find him a little dull and stodgy perhaps. One needn't be British to find Petty a little plain. At his best, I think he's got something ("The Waiting" would be my own personal "YEAH, man!" pick...and there's these sort of lower level mild dopamine fixes like "Here Comes My Girl" or "Stop Draggin' My Heart Around" that I'll leave on the radio 40% of the time), but...a friend of mine once described him thusly: "about as good as you can be without anyone, anywhere EVER once mistaking you for a genius", and...there's more than a ring of truth there. That I prefer him to Weller is almost neither here nor there - I feel like he fulfils a similar mandate in terms of "60s/70s based trad. arr. bigging up" (something like "Listen to Her Heart" is basically "I'll Feel a Small Bit Better" - and both times I saw him, he'd provide these loving tributes to people like Them, Yardbirds, Thunderclap Newman, Zombies, etc.). His membership in George's Mean Girls clique DOES strike me as relevant (and Lynne is sort of "Petty with a string section", re: my rather mild criticisms). There's a bit of workmanlike smugness there (which, again, for all my faint praise - I generally feel warmly about his work...he's the kind of guy I saw live a few times without ever needing to own a single record), and I always got the sense that he rated himself pretty highly, all things considered (as if to say that he might have genuinely believed that the likes of Neil Young or Bob Dylan were somehow eating his lunch in terms of stature). I mean, I'm aware this all sounds bitchy and nitpicky, but...minus the two songs that you or I like, Paul Rodgers would kill for this kind of faint praise.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Dec 11, 2022 14:51:58 GMT
That's mightily unfair on Weller, who is surely a much more exciting songwriter. Petty doesn't have anything with the impact of 'Going Underground', he hasn't got it in him.
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Dec 11, 2022 14:58:35 GMT
That's mightily unfair on Weller, who is surely a much more exciting songwriter. Petty doesn't have anything with the impact of 'Going Underground', he hasn't got it in him. That's the point you took from JSJ's post?
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Post by davey on Dec 11, 2022 16:22:28 GMT
Maybe..he's kind of like the US version of Dexy's in that regard, although I don't think the Brits hold him in derision, just find him a little dull and stodgy perhaps. Does it have to be derision, or is dismissiveness enough?
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Post by davey on Dec 11, 2022 16:40:51 GMT
..a friend of mine once described him thusly: "about as good as you can be without anyone, anywhere EVER once mistaking you for a genius", and...there's more than a ring of truth there. To the extent that this is true, it’s something I value about Petty. There’s very little whiff of ‘look at me, I’m a poet’ about him. He’s kinda the anti-Nick Cave. But the thing is… I DO sometimes see some genius in Petty’s work. There’s an economy to it. A way he has of setting up a scenario that allows the listener to run off with it and make it their own. The classic example is, “she was an American girl, raised on promises…”. It’s such a deep well of a set-up, and he gets out of its way expertly. There’s no second verse where he laments the broken promise of America or whatever. Instead he just piles up the scenarios (“she stood alone on her balcony”). A good song leaves room for the listener to move in to it. Perry’s best songs really exemplified this. I don’t love all of his work. But that initial run of singles was fantastic - and even more impressive for cutting through during a moment when everyone around him was losing their way musically.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Dec 12, 2022 7:56:42 GMT
Maybe..he's kind of like the US version of Dexy's in that regard, although I don't think the Brits hold him in derision, just find him a little dull and stodgy perhaps. Does it have to be derision, or is dismissiveness enough? I suppose dismissiveness is a little kinder!
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Dec 12, 2022 8:34:48 GMT
Just listened to 'American Girl'. It's not bad, I think The Strokes ripped off the riffing a bit for 'Last Night', but the vocal is dreadful, sinks the whole thing.
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Post by osgood on Dec 12, 2022 8:59:51 GMT
Most of his records are dull, none terribly bad, at least what I've heard. But his peaks - s/t, Damn the Torpedoes, Southern Accent, Full Moon Fever - are very good in my book.
Oh, and I quite like the first Wilburys thing.
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Post by oh oooh on Dec 12, 2022 9:04:55 GMT
The Wilburys big hits are smashing
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Post by fonz on Dec 12, 2022 9:23:52 GMT
Good grief
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Dec 12, 2022 9:31:51 GMT
The Wilburys big hits are smashing Somewhat of an exaggeration. "Handle With Care" was likeable though.
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toomanyhatz
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Post by toomanyhatz on Dec 12, 2022 19:31:37 GMT
I feel like I've spent my entire BCB/Preludin career defending Petty's place in the canon, but I also must admit that the word 'serviceable' comes up far too often in that defense. That said, the fact that he's been able to parlay that into a decades-long career of not only constant hits without playing to current trends, but playing with the 'big boys' the likes of Dylan, Orbison, Del Shannon, etc., can't really be looked at as anything other than an impressive feat.
I think the 'big boys' like playing with him because he's reverential to them as a fan, yet talented enough to keep up with them. See also under Stewart, Dave, who to me is a much less interesting songwriter AND musician than Petty, and probably more worthy of the dismissals that Petty seems to earn.
I think what Davey speaks of above is part of the reason - he understands subtlety and universality a lot better than folks like Stewart that feel more like they have to 'live up' to the high standards set by those guys in order to be invited to the playground - yet don't have the talent to do so.
I actually do read something into the fact that Dave Stewart desperately wanted to be part of the Wilburys but didn't make the cut while Petty did. When that didn't work he found other asses to kiss - i.e. Ringo (love Ringo, but...pretty big step down from the above) and Stevie Nicks.
Petty strikes me mostly as drastically underrated by the folks that don't like him, and drastically overrated by those that do. He's not 'first-division' and never will be, but it's to his credit that he's not a complete outsider in that world either.
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Post by davey on Dec 12, 2022 20:24:27 GMT
I think “the big boys” took to Petty and Jeff Lynne because those guys managed to be relevant throughout the 80s. If you are George Harrison or Bob Dylan, that must have been a really flummoxing time. How were either supposed to fit in anymore? But then there’s Petty and Lynne on the radio all the time. They had to be a little in awe. Especially Petty, who managed to do it with a recognizable straight-up rock ‘n roll. Why wouldn’t they sidle-up next to that?
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loveless
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Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
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Post by loveless on Dec 12, 2022 20:38:15 GMT
I think “the big boys” took to Petty and Jeff Lynne because those guys managed to be relevant throughout the 80s. If you are George Harrison or Bob Dylan, that must have been a really flummoxing time. How were either supposed to fit in anymore? But then there’s Petty and Lynne on the radio all the time. They had to be a little in awe. Especially Petty, who managed to do it with a recognizable straight-up rock ‘n roll. Why wouldn’t they sidle-up next to that? Yeah, I want to say (in no damning way) that I fully concur with this (it's adjacent to a version of "my kids' friends think I'm the cool mom"), and that...you think about guys in their 70s now who inevitably end up onstage with Dave Grohl, and it's a similar phenomenon.
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