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Post by cousinlou on Oct 28, 2021 11:43:43 GMT
During English literature class, we had to read 30 books/poetry collections for our exam. Ideally, a good mix of different time periods. It was allowed to put American writers on your list but not really encouraged. I think the reason was the exams committee thought American English a bastardised version of 'proper' English.
Whatever. Although I have read quite a bit by English/Irish/Scottish writers, the Americans outweigh them by far. Not a wonder given the USA is a bigger pool.
I was just wondering the other day if I am not missing out.
What would be UK equivalents to these writers (roughly same time period)
J.D. Salinger Hemingway Scott Fitzgerald Saul Bellow Paul Auster Kerouac
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Post by oh oooh on Oct 28, 2021 11:54:04 GMT
I think you could probably find contemporary British writers who are quite obviously influenced by Auster, and of course Hemingway influenced pretty much everybody writing in the 20th C (if only sometimes to write 'in opposition' to him), but equivalents? that's a tough one. Most great US writers stood alone, they had no peer. You could add Steinbeck, Pynchon, Faulkner and Vonnegut to your list.
Possibly some European/Russian writers took more from those you mention - but I'm a bit out of my depth already.
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Post by jimbo on Oct 28, 2021 12:14:13 GMT
Of all the US writers mentioned so far the only one I appreciate is Vonnegut because all of the others' books were too hard for me to read. But a contemporaneous and better UK equivalent might be a Sumerset Maugham or a Patrick O'Brian. Paul Auster and the others are dryer than hay. But maybe you like that stuff (you pretentious prig ). Brits far and away better. Better movies too.
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Post by DarknessFish on Oct 28, 2021 12:23:14 GMT
Depends what you mean by equivalents here? Are you talking critically acclaimed and popular, or are you looking for direct comparisons of style? Strange that you missed out Philip Roth on that list, btw.
If it's just literary big guns:
Martin Amis Ian McEwan Julian Barnes Hilary Mantel Kazuo Ishiguro
There are a few Irish, Australian, and South Africans who are up there too.
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Post by DarknessFish on Oct 28, 2021 12:26:06 GMT
Paul Auster and the others are dryer than hay. But maybe you like that stuff (you pretentious prig ). Brits far and away better. Better movies too. I love Paul Auster's writing, I don't think he's dry at all. Book of Illusions and 4 3 2 1 are incredible pieces of writing. The biggest gun of all is the one I find a bit tedious, Saul Bellow. I know they say write about what you know, but there are only so many books I need where the protagonist is an elderly Jewish academic.
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Post by tory on Oct 28, 2021 12:35:50 GMT
I don't think you can really compare them in any real sense, as the place where American novelists came from in the 20th century was far, far different to the British one. Yes, they share a language and in many cases, a sort of shared heritage, but that's really about it.
I'd say the following of a long list
Orwell Lawrence Durrell (perhaps the greatest 20th century author, but that is contentious) Graham Greene Aldous Huxley Robert Graves Evelyn Waugh Virginia Woolf Iris Murdoch Kingsley Amis Tolkien (even if you don't like LOTR, it is an immense achievement of sorts) William Trevor Somerset Maugham
And that's just off the top of my head.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 12:36:13 GMT
What would be UK equivalents to these writers (roughly same time period) J.D. Salinger Hemingway Scott Fitzgerald Saul Bellow Paul Auster Kerouac All the great writers are kind of unique so I don't see it as evidence of the superiority of American literature necessarily. Still I'll play... I can't think of immediate equivalents of Hemingway (plenty of British writers have been influenced by him of course, but you stated from the same time period), Bellow or Salinger. Fitzgerald - Well the obvious one would be Evelyn Waugh. Both write about the rich/upper classes. Both have a Catholic sensibility. There's a sense of moral decay in both. Much prefer Fitzgerald though. Auster - Martin Amis maybe. Both tricksy, playful and post-modern. Both have a fascination with coincidences, doppelgangers, parallel lives etc. Kerouac - No immediate equivalent comes to mind, but in one aspect you could say Colin MacInnes. Both write about outsiders, youthful rebellion, the marginalised, sub-cultures etc. MacInnes doesn't have Kerouac's poetic lyricism,pantheistic love of nature and a whole lot more besides, so the comparison is admittedly a limited one.
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Post by cousinlou on Oct 28, 2021 12:43:23 GMT
Depends what you mean by equivalents here? Are you talking critically acclaimed and popular, or are you looking for direct comparisons of style? Strange that you missed out Philip Roth on that list, btw. If it's just literary big guns: Martin Amis Ian McEwan Julian Barnes Hilary Mantel Kazuo Ishiguro There are a few Irish, Australian, and South Africans who are up there too. Equivalent in terms of quality. Critically acclaimed I guess. Not so much the style but maybe the 'tone' if you like. I didn't want to make it an endless list. (and am not a big fan of KV either) I have meant to check Amis, what would you recommend? Of McEwan I have read Atonement but wasn't blown away by it. Which is his best? Am unfamiliar with the work of the other three ( but have seen Remains Of The Day)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 12:50:23 GMT
Paul Auster and the others are dryer than hay. But maybe you like that stuff (you pretentious prig ). Brits far and away better. Better movies too. I love Paul Auster's writing, I don't think he's dry at all. Book of Illusions and 4 3 2 1 are incredible pieces of writing. The biggest gun of all is the one I find a bit tedious, Saul Bellow. I know they say write about what you know, but there are only so many books I need where the protagonist is an elderly Jewish academic. There's a certain school of American writing which is usually a family saga with a late middle aged male at its centre. You get it with Bellow, Philip Roth, John Updike etc.. Lots of introspection, the smallest incidents given great detail and there'll be 600 pages of it. I really struggle with it I must say. I was erming and ahhing over whether to buy Jonathan Franzen's The Corrections the other day. In the end I demurred because I thought it'll be more of that stuff.
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Post by cousinlou on Oct 28, 2021 12:51:13 GMT
What would be UK equivalents to these writers (roughly same time period) J.D. Salinger Hemingway Scott Fitzgerald Saul Bellow Paul Auster Kerouac All the great writers are kind of unique so I don't see it as evidence of the superiority of American literature necessarily. Still I'll play... I can't think of immediate equivalents of Hemingway (plenty of British writers have been influenced by him of course, but you stated from the same time period), Bellow or Salinger. Fitzgerald - Well the obvious one would be Evelyn Waugh. Both write about the rich/upper classes. Both have a Catholic sensibility. There's a sense of moral decay in both. Much prefer Fitzgerald though. Auster - Martin Amis maybe. Both tricksy, playful and post-modern. Both have a fascination with coincidences, doppelgangers, parallel lives etc. Kerouac - No immediate equivalent comes to mind, but in one aspect you could say Colin MacInnes. Both write about outsiders, youthful rebellion, the marginalised, sub-cultures etc. MacInnes doesn't have Kerouac's poetic lyricism,pantheistic love of nature and a whole lot more besides, so the comparison is admittedly a limited one. I have read and love a lot of Evelyn Waugh. Will check out MacInnes. Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 12:53:51 GMT
I have meant to check Amis, what would you recommend? Start with Money. That's great and very funny.
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Post by cousinlou on Oct 28, 2021 12:57:30 GMT
I don't think you can really compare them in any real sense, as the place where American novelists came from in the 20th century was far, far different to the British one. Yes, they share a language and in many cases, a sort of shared heritage, but that's really about it. I'd say the following of a long list Orwell Lawrence Durrell (perhaps the greatest 20th century author, but that is contentious) Graham Greene Aldous Huxley Robert Graves Evelyn Waugh Virginia Woolf Iris Murdoch Kingsley Amis Tolkien (even if you don't like LOTR, it is an immense achievement of sorts) William Trevor Somerset Maugham And that's just off the top of my head. Unfamiliar with Trevor, Durrell and Graves. Will have a look next time I am in the bookshop. Thanks.
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Post by oh oooh on Oct 28, 2021 13:00:36 GMT
I love Paul Auster's writing, I don't think he's dry at all. Book of Illusions and 4 3 2 1 are incredible pieces of writing. The biggest gun of all is the one I find a bit tedious, Saul Bellow. I know they say write about what you know, but there are only so many books I need where the protagonist is an elderly Jewish academic. There's a certain school of American writing which is usually a family saga with a late middle aged male at its centre. You get it with Bellow, Philip Roth, John Updike etc.. Lots of introspection, the smallest incidents given great detail and there'll be 600 pages of it. I really struggle with it I must say. I was erming and ahhing over whether to buy Jonathan Franzen's The Corrections the other day. In the end I demurred because I thought it'll be more of that stuff.An ex girlfriend bought me The Corrections and it lay unread by the side of the bed for ages. She was furious that I never touched it - we actually had a big bust-up over it. But I didn't want to, for the same reasons you state. I think you're right to characterise some US fiction that way, but I find especially with Updike his attention to detail can be gripping rather than tedious. That was certainly what I found with the Rabbit books - other things I've read by him aren't quite as good. I tried with Roth's later work but couldn't get into it at all. But I think everybody should read Portnoy's Complaint! I agree with your nomination of Money, G - that was the first thing I read by Amis and probably my favourite. But London Fields is probably just as good.
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Post by sloopjohnc on Oct 28, 2021 13:01:03 GMT
In the words of Goatboy. . .
"Another thing ruined by the yanks"
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Post by DarknessFish on Oct 28, 2021 14:02:45 GMT
I have meant to check Amis, what would you recommend? Of McEwan I have read Atonement but wasn't blown away by it. Which is his best? Like everyone else, I'd recommend starting with Money. One recent-ish book of Amis's that I really liked, but got a terrible kicking from THE brigade (cue Dougie), was The Pregnant Widow, a kind of semi-autobiographical sex comedy tcakling the sexual revolution. Trying to critique feminism while writing about sex, as a middle-aged man was probably a bad idea, but it's much more fun than most of his books. And I wouldn't really rate Ian McEwan, Atonement is the best of his that I've read. I lump him together with Julian Barnes as really skillful writers of prose who unfortunately write like they've never spoken to another human.
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