~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Sept 6, 2022 17:40:36 GMT
The musical demise of Syd Barrett. As much as there’s been about Pink Floyd the group, there’s much that’s been written and speculated just about Syd Barrett, although he made just one album and a few singles with them as their original leader. It’s widely known that he made some abortive attempts at doing some recording in 1974, about four years after his second and last solo LP. Some material from those sessions has long been bootlegged.
I didn’t realize, however, until viewing the 2012 documentary Pink Floyd: The Story of Wish You Were Here that a few scraps are heard in that film, marking the only officially available extracts. If Barrett’s solo albums were something like, to paraphrase Pink Floyd biographer Nicholas Schaffner, like much of the method had gone out of his madness, the 1974 sessions are like hearing a brain that’s almost closed down. There’s some personality fighting to get out of these instrumental bits and pieces, but it’s almost like it’s seeping out from some of the few empty bricks in a wall, to use a description Roger Waters might appreciate.
One wonders if the sessions were a last-ditch attempt to get Barrett involved in something positive and creative again, a last-ditch attempt to exploit whatever commercial value might be left in a recording by the original Pink Floyd leader in the wake of The Dark Side of the Moon, or something in between. Whatever the case, it couldn’t have been a pleasant exercise for anyone involved.
Considering Pink Floyd’s post-Barrett success—not just with Dark Side of the Moon, but really starting right away with the UK Top Ten success of their second (and first post-Barrett, for the most part) LP, A Saucerful of Secrets—one wonders whether he would have continued to dominate the group as much as he did on The Piper at the Gates of Dawn, even had he remained mentally healthy. Even before Syd’s departure, Waters and Rick Wright were writing some LP tracks and B-sides that, if not among the best of the group’s work, were certainly respectable. One can only speculate that perhaps Waters and Wright would have written a significant and growing share of the songs as time went on, even if Barrett continued to pen the majority of the compositions. It’s a what-if that will never be known.
www.richieunterberger.com/wordpress/pink-floyds-sort-of-secrets/
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Post by Charlie O. on Sept 6, 2022 18:05:42 GMT
The bit in that link about the source of the Dark Side cover concept was a surprise to me.
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loveless
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Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
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Post by loveless on Sept 6, 2022 20:19:37 GMT
And the prospect of a mythical lost stash of "Emily"-era Syd songs (The Purple Gang Tape) reignited a real dragon chasing feeling I haven't had in ages (but carried strongly for many years): the sense that his best work was so utterly compelling and there was so little of it, and that...SURELY there must be more of it out there somewhere.
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Sneelock
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Post by Sneelock on Sept 6, 2022 20:37:26 GMT
some days I wonder if Syd was the closest thing to happy out of the whole batch. okay, maybe Mason didn't let himself get ground down to a pulp.
mind you, I almost certainly wonder since my own lot in life is closest to Syd's.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Sept 6, 2022 20:41:51 GMT
And the prospect of a mythical lost stash of "Emily"-era Syd songs (The Purple Gang Tape) reignited a real dragon chasing feeling I haven't had in ages (but carried strongly for many years): the sense that his best work was so utterly compelling and there was so little of it, and that...SURELY there must be more of it out there somewhere. I’d quite happily suck even Gav off to hear that tape.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Sept 6, 2022 21:27:41 GMT
mind you, I almost certainly wonder since my own lot in life is closest to Syd's. Blimey, Snee!
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toomanyhatz
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Post by toomanyhatz on Sept 6, 2022 22:10:33 GMT
The notion that he was already in decline on the solo records is one I've never agreed with. They're some of my favorite records ever. I think the relative incoherence of the later recordings is more due to his disinterest than anything else. I think with the right handling (which he was never going to get out of the Floyd camp - far too much baggage attached post Dark Side) he could have made a good record at practically any point that he was interested in trying. I just don't think he was terribly interested past a certain point. If there's a 'if only' here, that's it. But if there's blame to be cast here, it falls completely on Roger Barrett, not anyone else. As much as I'd love to blame Waters.
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loveless
god
Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
Posts: 2,796
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Post by loveless on Sept 8, 2022 16:26:10 GMT
some days I wonder if Syd was the closest thing to happy out of the whole batch. I've watched their various issues play out over the past....40 years, I guess (the timestamp refers to my watching - I'm sure their issues stretch back into the Jurassic era). I wouldn't want to be in a band (or village) with any of them. They all strike me as the most awful, petty, vindictive, insecure little men - each clamoring to manipulate their enemy du jour, or to obsess over credit for their little fraction of an idea. Each man would have you think he did it all (Mason and Wright, to be fair, were more "my chord', "my part", "my suggestion"). But I remember a friend pointing this out maybe 20 years ago when the DSOTM "classic albums/making of" came out - it really was an hour of four men each making sure their piece of the pie was properly accredited. Similarly, this version of Animals that is due out this month sat on a shelf for four years all because of Roger's "I did it all! Great idea, Roger!" liner notes, which - naturally - Gilmour vetoed (I can't decide whether or not I blame him - if I had to work with either man, there's no telling what sort of little flexes I'd engage in). Even their periodic détentes seem like a stage for subsequent shit-talking/maneuvering (Has Gilmour not spent 35 years with "You left the band, remember?" as his ultimate power play?). They've made each other richer than God, and yet...here they are. I've left so much out of this (all of the issues ca. The Wall and The Final Cut and the initial three vs. one Waters-less reunion). Even the other day, the Pink Floyd social media pages put out what seemed like the most snarky and passive aggressive birthday greeting to Roger. As I say, each man resembles nothing so much as their reactions to the others. So, Syd? Yeah, it would be difficult to say that he missed much. A life of relative peace, supplemented by the proceeds of roughly a year's work. I have no doubt that, amidst all of his troubles during his fraught exit, he dragged the others mightily as one last "you can't prove I'm fucking with you" power play.
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Post by Charlie O. on Sept 8, 2022 16:41:52 GMT
... each clamoring to manipulate their enemy du jour, or to obsess over credit for their little fraction of an idea. ... I remember a friend pointing this out maybe 20 years ago when the DSOTM "classic albums/making of" came out - it really was an hour of four men each making sure their piece of the pie was properly accredited. To be possibly fairer than I should be, don't you think this is largely if not entirely the result of Waters' efforts to take the band over (and then blow it up)? Usually in these kinds of situations it does start with one person claiming more credit than they deserve, prompting others to say "now waitaminute..." Whether you buy that or not, surely we can agree that he's far and away the biggest dickhead of the four-or-five.
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Sneelock
god
you're gonna break another heart
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Post by Sneelock on Sept 8, 2022 17:20:27 GMT
well, he certainly has the biggest chip on his shoulder. He thought "Roger Waters" meant as much in the marketplace as "Pink Floyd" did. Wrong-O! He's had a major bug up his ass ever since and there were obviously quite a few up there already.
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loveless
god
Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
Posts: 2,796
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Post by loveless on Sept 8, 2022 18:50:00 GMT
I would concur that Rog is, perhaps, the most transparent as a rule.
And I would argue that this is his Achilles Heel.
Dave...I dunno...he's had custody of "the ball" for 35 years now. He's just about shrewd enough to play at the benevolent, rational, patient, benign, smiling "just trying to be fair and kind while dealing with Roger" diplomat, but...I'd argue that he lets his mask slip periodically. He couldn't WAIT to reassert publicly that he'd been "dealing with Roger under great duress" after Live 8.
I'm not litigating for either - and I think both feel quite strongly that they have carried the other in various moments/areas (and I've got no beef with that self-assessment), but...just how much does anyone really want to keep beating that drum (whether aggressively or more smugly)?
Roger's ambition wasn't nothing, and...to the extent that he eventually took it too far, I've also considered the relative apathy to which he might have been reacting in those days.
A friend of mine (longtime bandmate, with whom I've had my own issues) remarked after Get Back had aired that:
a) when one considers that George, John, and Paul had been together as adolescents - all of their behaviors towards each other, and even their general affects/personalities when in the same room, were formed like rivers/rocks/various organic elements that absolutely created each other's ultimate forms.
and
b) Whether George was being talked over/ignored by John and Paul seemed (to us) secondary to the fact that he was someone you might WANT to talk over/ignore much of the time.
I digress a bit, but...I do think people in bands/dysfunctional families form each other enormously, and...it has never specifically been my view that it was mean old Rog ruining the lives of all of these lovely innocents.
Look - Dave has the agency to keep reissuing and repackaging studio and live albums from his era (1987 onward) as if they were somehow essential or core (they weren't and they aren't). Has he not won?
It's interesting, though - obviously, it meant a lot in the marketplace ca. 1987 that Dave got the brand name and Rog didn't.
Now? I think both Dave and Rog can sell out the biggest rooms in the world handily for big ticket prices using their own names. I saw one of them at Wrigley Field, I know one of them headlined over the Who at Oldchella, etc.
In terms of "needing the brand name", it's not entirely clear to me what changed over those decades.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Sept 8, 2022 18:54:18 GMT
well, he certainly has the biggest chip on his shoulder. He thought "Roger Waters" meant as much in the marketplace as "Pink Floyd" did. Wrong-O! He's had a major bug up his ass ever since and there were obviously quite a few up there already. 'Wrong-O!' is just fabulous! Thank you. Expect to see me use that one a lot from now 🙂
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Sneelock
god
you're gonna break another heart
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Post by Sneelock on Sept 8, 2022 20:21:29 GMT
thank Tony Junior. Tony the Tiger had a son. "wrong-O, mary lou" was worthy of being a catch phrase but never really caught on until well after the fact.
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Sneelock
god
you're gonna break another heart
Posts: 8,544
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Post by Sneelock on Sept 8, 2022 20:33:53 GMT
In terms of "needing the brand name", it's not entirely clear to me what changed over those decades. he's worked his butt off! he gives people a lot of bang for the buck. it would appear that somewhere along the line that he stopped hating it with every fiber of his being.
I like him. I grew up with "ummagumma" and shit so he always seemed the most creative to me. I REALLY soured on him with 'the final cut" which I never liked and he hastened to take all the credit for.
looking back, I think Wright got a really raw deal. HE seemed to buy the theory that he wasn't making much of a contribution but, as a listener, I never agreed. it certainly sounds like he was making a contribution to me. even if the guy was a wreck (and it would appear that he was) I think it was quite the Dick Move the way Waters treated him.
I don't think I rate a single "floyd" album done without Waters but I do think it was fair that it wasn't over just because he said so.
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toomanyhatz
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Post by toomanyhatz on Sept 8, 2022 20:34:19 GMT
Yeah, I'm largely a "Syd only" guy - though in recent years I've warmed to everything up through Obscured By Clouds considerably - but at a certain point you have to resign yourself to fact that the one that puts their head down and gets to work has earned the right to control the narrative. I have a personal distaste for how Waters goes about it, but like I said earlier, he 'went about it' and Syd didn't. And really, as sympathetic as I am for Wright (I do think he was very poorly treated within the band), he didn't either.
It's fun to imagine an alternate universe where they stayed more democratic, but I'm not sure how far it would've gotten without Waters' drive (as self-serving as it was, and as much as it pains me to say it).
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