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Post by Stacy Heydon on Jul 27, 2023 13:47:51 GMT
I disagree. Even in my school there is an issue with drugs - it's not widespread, but it's there. To say that there is a lot less drug taking in youth culture compared to 20 years ago is laughable in all honesty. Have you not heard of County Lines? It's always been there.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 27, 2023 13:50:23 GMT
I've watched a number of these videos over the last few days and the main theme, to me at least, is the powerful effect of drugs on families and communities. So many stories or anecdotes like a mother saying "I love you, but I love Heroin more". It is such a heartbreaking problem and I don't think legislation would make one iota of difference either; in fact, I suspect it would make the problem a whole lot worse. To me, the issue is that the acceptance of drugs in our culture is so now powerfully normalised that I cannot imagine it going the other way. It isn't normalised at all, indeed there is a lot less drug taking in youth culture now then there was twenty years ago, as you should know. Something like heroin overwhelmingly takes place in the poorer communities ( these days anyway...in the old days aristocrats were strangely drawn to it). Walk down the street and how often do you smell weed? How often do you see someone smoking it? Look at America. For my folks the drug use of my generation is something completely alien and strange. They don't get it at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2023 13:53:42 GMT
Cocaine is rife in the west of Ireland but no one will rat anyone out. It's usually done in small towns and villages, so if you rat on someone or ban them from the local GAA team for using it, EVERYONE KNOWS! So that person could lose their job, their family gets the rep etc. So outside of the police, you're free to schniff all you want.
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Post by tory on Jul 27, 2023 13:56:14 GMT
I suspect that if you got candid responses from people of my age (nearly 50) about their history of drug usage compared, to say, 40 years ago, you would have a significant change.
Most people of my age I suspect have probably smoked cannabis at least once, have possibly tried some sort of hallucinogen once (like Magic Mushrooms) or twice, and have probably had coke at least once. I reckon that it would be harder to find someone who resolutely did not take drugs over someone who has dabbled.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Jul 27, 2023 13:58:27 GMT
I suspect that if you got candid responses from people of my age (nearly 50) about their history of drug usage compared, to say, 40 years ago, you would have a significant change. Most people of my age I suspect have probably smoked cannabis at least once, have possibly tried some sort of hallucinogen once (like Magic Mushrooms) or twice, and have probably had coke at least once. I reckon that it would be harder to find someone who resolutely did not take drugs over someone who has dabbled. and?
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Post by tory on Jul 27, 2023 14:06:55 GMT
So I'd say that your claim about the number of young people taking drugs isn't based on evidence, and that furthermore, that liberal attitudes about drug taking are enforced by generational role models (parents) and also with depictions in the media, which reinforce that it is, ultimately, no longer taboo and, as such, acceptable.
Cannabis usage is absolutely rife in this country, as Dougie points out. Cocaine is utterly prevalent everywhere and, in particular, in rural parts, which was not the case 30 years ago. It is much, much easier to buy drugs now (and have them delivered to your doorstep) than it has ever been.
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Post by harrylemon on Jul 27, 2023 14:08:03 GMT
Is that the name of the latest cocaine hitting the street? "Mate, county lines?" "yeah i gotcha, 3 bags for the price of 4, or one bag for the price of 2". It is the method of supply. Where the drugs are passed from the major suppliers in cities out to the smaller towns/counties.
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Post by tory on Jul 27, 2023 14:16:44 GMT
Is that the name of the latest cocaine hitting the street? "Mate, county lines?" "yeah i gotcha, 3 bags for the price of 4, or one bag for the price of 2". It is the method of supply. Where the drugs are passed from the major suppliers in cities out to the smaller towns/counties. A particularly disgusting practice. A standard tactic is to target young disaffected teenagers outside of school and to give them a phone or a pair of trainers, and then they are caught in a debt cycle. It seems to be a Somalian thing according to my son's best friend's dad, who works for the Met. www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/09/county-lines-drug-gangs-fuel-knife-crime-london-norfolk
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Jul 27, 2023 14:26:11 GMT
So I'd say that your claim about the number of young people taking drugs isn't based on evidence, and that furthermore, that liberal attitudes about drug taking are enforced by generational role models (parents) and also with depictions in the media, which reinforce that it is, ultimately, no longer taboo and, as such, acceptable. Cannabis usage is absolutely rife in this country, as Dougie points out. Cocaine is utterly prevalent everywhere and, in particular, in rural parts, which was not the case 30 years ago. It is much, much easier to buy drugs now (and have them delivered to your doorstep) than it has ever been. I never claimed my comment was based on empirical evidence. You made a comment on your own generation but didn't explain how that related to young people. I'm quite happy to have a serious debate on drugs, but let's drop the "respectable pillar of the community" postering and the simplistic blanket comments on media representation first, eh?
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Post by tory on Jul 27, 2023 14:33:37 GMT
"Pill-er" of the community instead.
Any serious discussion about drugs is, surely, centred on legalisation.
Is legalising drugs going to make any improvement on the fact that for many, drug addiction is incredibly destructive for both the person taking them and the people around them?
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Jul 27, 2023 14:38:41 GMT
"Pill-er" of the community instead. Any serious discussion about drugs is, surely, centred on legalisation. Is legalising drugs going to make any improvement on the fact that for many, drug addiction is incredibly destructive for both the person taking them and the people around them? I don't know to be honest. But we know two things about prohibition: 1. It has created an economically powerful criminal class whose proceeds from drug money now infect just about every part of society. 2. It is incredibly costly and inefficent when you consider only a small fraction of the drugs imported into this country are seized. Given that, I think alternative approaches are at least worthy of debate.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 27, 2023 16:08:02 GMT
They've legalised weed in many US states and it's not got rid of the illegal element at all. Instead they just undercut legal sellers.
I went to Newbury racecourse a few years ago for a stag do and I couldn't believe the amount of coke that was around. There were huge queues outside toilets and you'd go into the toilet and of course 90% of men were waiting for a cubicle.
And nobody was doing anything. Racecourse staff, police, nobody. Clearly it's normalised and tolerated so you effectively have class A drugs being taken and nobody gives a shit. It might as well be beer.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Jul 27, 2023 16:44:43 GMT
I'm unclear what is being advocated here or why we are conflating casual recreational drug use in the UK with the opiate problem in the underclass in America. I mean other than some posters getting a kick out of adopting some "zero tolerance" conservative attitude, I'm not seeing much in the way of sensible proposals.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 27, 2023 16:59:18 GMT
I think it's all part of a wider trend and pattern where drugs have become so normalised that the idea of changing this almost seems an old fashioned idea and an impossibility now. They have become part of our culture in a way they never were before. If you showed videos of drug users on the streets of America to someone 50 years ago they would be shocked at how things have panned out.
Of course fentanyl is not weed and weed is not coke and coke is not adhd drugs or whatever but even when it comes to weed there is increasing evidence around links to mental health issues. We can also see the consequences of legalisation in America and Canada and it doesn't look great to me. Apparently if you walk around New York these days the smell of weed is everywhere. Is this really a good thing?
I don't know what the answers are tbh although in this country we could start small at least and maybe start doing something about Newbury racecourse lol. With something like fentanyl that's linked to China and the Mexican cartels. In the UK the coke industry seems to have strong connections with the Albanian underworld. But, and I say this as a former stoner, I am not convinced legalisation of weed is a good idea anymore but in the UK at present it feels like it's de facto decriminalised anyway and maybe that's part of the problem.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Jul 27, 2023 17:27:28 GMT
I think it's all part of a wider trend and pattern where drugs have become so normalised that the idea of changing this almost seems an old fashioned idea and an impossibility now. They have become part of our culture in a way they never were before. If you showed videos of drug users on the streets of America to someone 50 years ago they would be shocked at how things have panned out. Of course fentanyl is not weed and weed is not coke and coke is not adhd drugs or whatever but even when it comes to weed there is increasing evidence around links to mental health issues. We can also see the consequences of legalisation in America and Canada and it doesn't look great to me. Apparently if you walk around New York these days the smell of weed is everywhere. Is this really a good thing? I don't know what the answers are tbh although in this country we could start small at least and maybe start doing something about Newbury racecourse lol. With something like fentanyl that's linked to China and the Mexican cartels. In the UK the coke industry seems to have strong connections with the Albanian underworld. But, and I say this as a former stoner, I am not convinced legalisation of weed is a good idea anymore but in the UK at present it feels like it's de facto decriminalised anyway and maybe that's part of the problem. I mean you can turn 40 or whatever and decide the behaviour you used to indulge in quite happily is no longer a good look for the new found conservative image you've decided to adopt and that therefore you're going to adopt the prohibitive attitude that actually had precisely no effect at all on your own behaviour when you were young, or you can accept that this is just something many like to do and it is unlikely to be stopped by punitive sanctions. So that's where the discussion needs to get a bit more honest and thoughtful in my view. Is it worse now than it was in the 90s when clubs were full of teenagers blitzed out on E? I seem to remember in 1995 they estimated that 2 million people were taking it every weekend. It seems less embedded in youth culture than it was, but there are now different 'legal' highs that are actually not very safe at all to worry about. I would also agree that the super-strength skunk is a big problem, particularly on the estates and amongst many working class males. The thing is the current approach to drugs just hasn't worked has it? It's just created a great free market for criminals.
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