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Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 27, 2023 13:47:50 GMT
You can't help but feel with Mozza that he has his personal axe to grind with the record industry - with some justification mind - and therefore he likes to piggy back on such things to grind some more. I don't know enough about O'Connor's career to comment on her relationship with record labels but he's trying to frame her as some kind of victim ala Garland, Winehouse etc (as he is too presumably?). O'Connor had pretty big success for a few years and was critically acclaimed but commercially she peaked 30 years ago. Let's face it, she hardly helped herself in life and she was clearly unstable and self-destructive. What was she liked to work with? To deal with? As sad as it is, some people are just not made for success, even though they desire it, and they don't have the skills and character to navigate those choppy waters. She drew attention from the media for obvious reasons, some of it ugly perhaps but, again, she wasn't some shrinking violet and she said some daft shit over the years that naturally drew criticism. She was also clearly an attention seeker. In later years with the invention of social media you'd struggle to think of anyone in the industry who was less suited to navigating this new paradigm to be frank. Of course some of the praise comes across as glib but that's the soundbite world we live in. There's also been plenty sincere and heartfelt praise from fans. There is a hypocrisy in industry types lauding her as a 'genius' or 'legendary' or whatever, when they seemingly weren't interested in working with her in real life..that's the 'kernel of truth' I'm referring to. I've not seen those tweets tbh so I don't know who is referring to. I dunno man, people go over the top these days so "genius" simply means "very good" and "legendary" means "famous when I was a teenager". Her last album was 2014. Why? Did the industry just drop her? If it did then you can maybe understand why given declining sales and her personal issues is all I'm suggesting. People lie don't they? It's natural for people to go overboard with the praise when someone dies but that doesn't mean some industry cypher/s would stick their neck out to try and record someone who's career had long since peaked etc. Yeah that does suck but the industry is no longer like that and hasn't been for so long it's a bit of a moot point these days.
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Jul 27, 2023 13:50:28 GMT
There is a hypocrisy in industry types lauding her as a 'genius' or 'legendary' or whatever, when they seemingly weren't interested in working with her in real life..that's the 'kernel of truth' I'm referring to. I've not seen those tweets tbh so I don't know who is referring to. I dunno man, people go over the top these days so "genius" simply means "very good" and "legendary" means "famous when I was a teenager". Her last album was 2014. Why? Did the industry just drop her? If it did then you can maybe understand why given declining sales and her personal issues is all I'm suggesting. Fine, but don't pretend you (I mean the music biz types not you) care about artistry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2023 13:50:48 GMT
Has this cunt EVER said something where it hasn't turned out to be about himself?
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Post by harrylemon on Jul 27, 2023 14:03:09 GMT
It's rather hysterical, but there is a kernel of truth there. You can't help but feel with Mozza that he has his personal axe to grind with the record industry - with some justification mind - and therefore he likes to piggy back on such things to grind some more. I don't know enough about O'Connor's career to comment on her relationship with record labels but he's trying to frame her as some kind of victim ala Garland, Winehouse etc (as he is too presumably?). O'Connor had pretty big success for a few years and was critically acclaimed but commercially she peaked 30 years ago. Let's face it, she hardly helped herself in life and she was clearly unstable and self-destructive. What was she liked to work with? To deal with? As sad as it is, some people are just not made for success, even though they desire it, and they don't have the skills and character to navigate those choppy waters. She drew attention from the media for obvious reasons, some of it ugly perhaps but, again, she wasn't some shrinking violet and she said some daft shit over the years that naturally drew criticism. She was also clearly an attention seeker. In later years with the invention of social media you'd struggle to think of anyone in the industry who was less suited to navigating this new paradigm to be frank. Of course some of the praise comes across as glib but that's the soundbite world we live in. There's also been plenty sincere and heartfelt praise from fans. When she fell pregnant before her first album came out. Her record label wanted her to get an abortion. She shaved her head because the record company wanted her to have a glamorous image, which she saw as incompatible with her music. She seemed to be overcome by her success and her difficulties dealing with it aren't that hard to see given her chaotic at times childhood. She wanted attention but on her terms only. Losing a child to suicide is something I cannot even begin to imagine never mind try to cope with.
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Post by davey on Jul 27, 2023 14:47:07 GMT
The “too-late praise” thing is kinda true and kinda not. There’s almost a feminist cultural reassessment industry these days, with everyone from Tanya Harding, Lorena Bobbit, Pam Anderson, Linda Lovelace and Monica Lewinsky (among MANY others) having their stories re-told in high-profile films, documentaries, podcasts, books, etc. Over the last several years, I have read many an article reframing O’Connor as a heroic figure. This sentiment has been out there. It wasn’t just an immediate 180 degree turn on the occasion of her death.
The silliness of Morrissey’s screed is that it presumes that a record contract (or lack thereof) was the issue. But there’s no hypocrisy in respecting what Sinead O’Connor did when she had the world’s ear, but still not seeing the commercial attractiveness of putting out her 11th studio album.
For my own part, I was not a huge fan of her music. But l respected her. To live in this world you need to compartmentalize. If you fully felt the weight of every injustice around us, we’d never get out of bed in the morning - and we’d be duty-pressed to sacrifice our own lives in service of fixing them all. So we get good at not fully seeing them. Not fully feeling them. Sinead O’Connor clearly did not develop that set of skills, and she suffered publicly for it. In doing so, perhaps she reminded a few of us not to get too good at not seeing and feeling. I think that’s worthy of some real admiration. Hopefully something a little more introspective than Morrisey’s dumb accusations of hypocrisy (as if some level of hypocrisy wasn’t a given with humans anyhow).
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Post by Sneelock on Jul 27, 2023 14:51:15 GMT
I think smoking out hypocrites is the lousiest of Parlor Games. I prefer Scattegories.
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Post by davey on Jul 27, 2023 15:04:05 GMT
She gave me the eye in a pub in Dublin in 1993 I think you could have saved her, John.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 27, 2023 15:54:38 GMT
You can't help but feel with Mozza that he has his personal axe to grind with the record industry - with some justification mind - and therefore he likes to piggy back on such things to grind some more. I don't know enough about O'Connor's career to comment on her relationship with record labels but he's trying to frame her as some kind of victim ala Garland, Winehouse etc (as he is too presumably?). O'Connor had pretty big success for a few years and was critically acclaimed but commercially she peaked 30 years ago. Let's face it, she hardly helped herself in life and she was clearly unstable and self-destructive. What was she liked to work with? To deal with? As sad as it is, some people are just not made for success, even though they desire it, and they don't have the skills and character to navigate those choppy waters. She drew attention from the media for obvious reasons, some of it ugly perhaps but, again, she wasn't some shrinking violet and she said some daft shit over the years that naturally drew criticism. She was also clearly an attention seeker. In later years with the invention of social media you'd struggle to think of anyone in the industry who was less suited to navigating this new paradigm to be frank. Of course some of the praise comes across as glib but that's the soundbite world we live in. There's also been plenty sincere and heartfelt praise from fans. When she fell pregnant before her first album came out. Her record label wanted her to get an abortion. She shaved her head because the record company wanted her to have a glamorous image, which she saw as incompatible with her music. She seemed to be overcome by her success and her difficulties dealing with it aren't that hard to see given her chaotic at times childhood. She wanted attention but on her terms only. Losing a child to suicide is something I cannot even begin to imagine never mind try to cope with. She claimed a record executive encouraged her to abort. Whether he did or not it's not the same as a record label wanting to her to get an abortion. A label wanting an attractive young female singer to have a "glamorous image" is fairly standard I suspect. She had a difficult life with tragedy in it. I'm not trying to ignore all that but I thought Morrissey was trying to put her in a box with certain people in a convenient way because, I suspect, that's how he sees himself to some degree too. My initial point was really that some people cant be saved from themselves and it's not for a record company or other people to do that for them.
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Post by harrylemon on Jul 27, 2023 16:25:36 GMT
When she fell pregnant before her first album came out. Her record label wanted her to get an abortion. She shaved her head because the record company wanted her to have a glamorous image, which she saw as incompatible with her music. She seemed to be overcome by her success and her difficulties dealing with it aren't that hard to see given her chaotic at times childhood. She wanted attention but on her terms only. Losing a child to suicide is something I cannot even begin to imagine never mind try to cope with. She claimed a record executive encouraged her to abort. Whether he did or not it's not the same as a record label wanting to her to get an abortion. A label wanting an attractive young female singer to have a "glamorous image" is fairly standard I suspect. She had a difficult life with tragedy in it. I'm not trying to ignore all that but I thought Morrissey was trying to put her in a box with certain people in a convenient way because, I suspect, that's how he sees himself to some degree too. My initial point was really that some people cant be saved from themselves and it's not for a record company or other people to do that for them. The record executive was the founder of her record label. She says that she was sent to the in-house doctor. Who according to her said that the label had spent a 100 grand on her album and she owed it to them not to have the baby.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Jul 27, 2023 16:35:53 GMT
She claimed a record executive encouraged her to abort. Whether he did or not it's not the same as a record label wanting to her to get an abortion. A label wanting an attractive young female singer to have a "glamorous image" is fairly standard I suspect. She had a difficult life with tragedy in it. I'm not trying to ignore all that but I thought Morrissey was trying to put her in a box with certain people in a convenient way because, I suspect, that's how he sees himself to some degree too. My initial point was really that some people cant be saved from themselves and it's not for a record company or other people to do that for them. The record executive was the founder of her record label. She says that she was sent to the in-house doctor. Who according to her said that the label had spent a 100 grand on her album and she owed it to them not to have the baby. Sinead said a lot didn't she? Thankfully she had the kid anyway and went on to sell millions. With a shaved head.
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Post by Charlie O. on Jul 27, 2023 16:40:59 GMT
Speaking as a sometimes-fan, on the whole I think the music industry has been a damn sight better to Morrissey than he's been to it (or to anybody else, from what I can see).
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Jul 27, 2023 17:23:24 GMT
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Post by Half Machine Lipschitz on Jul 27, 2023 17:30:53 GMT
As the kids say, "that's totally cringe".
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Post by DayoRemix on Jul 27, 2023 17:37:25 GMT
She was dropped by Ensign/Chrysalis after two albums in row failed commercially, not even achieving Gold status in the US. Both were promoted heavily and both lost tons of money.That's more leeway than most artists got from execs in the 90s..
Are there certain kernels of truth hidden in the Moz blather? Sure. Is he trying to make it about himself in some ways? Yes..
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Post by Stacy Heydon on Jul 29, 2023 8:23:12 GMT
Is the reaction to her death, sad though it is, a little over the top given many of us only really know her huge hit Nothing Compares 2 U (the only other one I can remember is Mandeko.
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