Deleted
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prog
Dec 22, 2019 17:12:05 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 17:12:05 GMT
And while you are awaiting my return, breath bated, here's something I wrote in the other place vaguely germane to the subject I also objected to the casting of what they were progressing from was implicitly labelled regressive or primitive - which was just another way of saying 'jigaboo music'. I'm usually wary of using things like class as a stick to beat musicians with, but I do think it has a certain relevance with prog. There's so many aspects of prog - its emotional reticence, its lack of tangibility with the real world and retreat into abstraction and fantasy - that chime with a certain cloistered English upper class existence.
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Deleted
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prog
Dec 22, 2019 17:14:12 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 17:14:12 GMT
I can like bits and pieces, usually the more pastoral side of things, things like Caravan or Curved Air are fine. Basically when it's drawing on folk or jazz. The more it gets towards musical complexity as a thing in itself, the worse it gets generally. I agree with this. I like some Caravan - again, it's the early stuff. I think it's closer to folk than prog. This is really a wonder of a song - so joyous, so sweet, it never fails to lift my spirits:
YES -nice pick.
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Sneelock
god
Better than Washington...
Posts: 8,592
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prog
Dec 22, 2019 19:54:43 GMT
Post by Sneelock on Dec 22, 2019 19:54:43 GMT
I love the stuff. I still occasionally go through little phases where I want to listen to a bunch of Italian Prog or Canterbury bands for a couple of days.
I recently listened to yes “close to the edge” front to back for the first time in years. I was a little surprised how much it reminded me of other bands. Not in a derivative way necessarily - only in that many of those bands do have a sort of prog vocabulary - the mellotron, The 12 string, the jazz bass stylings...
My problem with prog is like my problem with punk. If you ever need to kill a few hours then ask a prog (or punk) fan to explain to you what defines prog (or punk). Your eyes will be glazing over in no time. I’ve endured this test often so maybe I can save you some time. The kind of prog that is not really prog is the kind the listener doesn’t really like. Likewise “real” prog is the kind they do like. However, to simply state it as plainly as this wouldn’t keep them occupied for hours at a time. If not for this they might be lobbying for mandatory mellotron ring tones or for marching bands to wear sequined capes.
Having said this, I don’t think this really applies to the BCB Prog fans (who I happen to like) I think, for the most part, they cast a pretty wide net. When solarskope first started in with calling them “OG-PRAY OON-GAYS” I thought this was mean spirited and a little out of line. Surprisingly they took to the term and seem to wear it as a badge of honor so what do I know? Also, there’s some prog I don’t like ( the kind that isn’t really prog,natch) so I’ m all for solarskope or Rayge speaking up about how much they hate what they hate.I have seriously enjoyed some back & forth with Davey over Yes. I think they are a wonderful band and he just can’t stand them. The way I see it - we’re both right. I know why I like them & he knows why he doesn’t. I think there’s a lot of fun to be had in “arguments” of this sort. I’m sure Davey is as uninterested about changing my mind as I am his. I think message boards are best with this sort of back and forth. You try to express yourself & get in a couple of zingers, you know?
The BCB proggers feel victimized and I suppose they most certainly are. I wish they had thicker skin but for purely selfish reasons. I think one side being Oon-gays & one side being bullies makes for pretty dull reading. the prog haters have the thickest skins on the Internet. I think explanations of both hatreds & enthusiasms can make for very interesting reading.
My favorite prog band is easily King Crimson. I like all phases of the band but especially like the Wetton/ Bruford era. This is a restless music. It can be meandering and then rock like a house on fire. I am also very fond of Gentle Giant and for a lot of the same reasons. Sure, make fun of the name but they can play a Madrigal type thing then hammer out a big fat riff. I love that kind of stuff. I find GG’s keyboard player very distinctive and accomplished.
I grew up loving Tull & Yes and find I still enjoy an awful lot of that stuff. I don’t think liking prog makes me smarter or dumber than anybody else BUT I do think that whoever dies liking the most stuff wins.
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Sneelock
god
Better than Washington...
Posts: 8,592
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prog
Dec 22, 2019 20:10:15 GMT
Post by Sneelock on Dec 22, 2019 20:10:15 GMT
Ray's SY thread got me thinking about it as I basically regard them as an 80s version of prog, but I didn't want to derail his thread with that thought. Hopefully you’ll return to this train of thought. I’ve had similar thoughts about Television.
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fange
god
Listening to long jazz tracks
Posts: 4,559
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prog
Dec 22, 2019 23:54:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by fange on Dec 22, 2019 23:54:23 GMT
I can like bits and pieces, usually the more pastoral side of things, things like Caravan or Curved Air are fine. Basically when it's drawing on folk or jazz. The more it gets towards musical complexity as a thing in itself, the worse it gets generally. This is generally how i feel; for me there is an important difference between progressive and prog, and it's the former with those added elements of folk, jazz or African musics that i usually find appealing. I'll post more later when i have time.
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Post by oh oooh on Dec 23, 2019 12:06:30 GMT
HOWEVER
there's something kind of appealing when a particular genre goes all-out and backs itself into a blind alley which has absolutely no relation to anything else at all. You might only be able to stand 25 seconds of it, THO
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loveless
god
Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
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Post by loveless on Dec 23, 2019 13:48:47 GMT
When I was at the other place and first started noticing Carlsson posting about all of this "moss rock" (as I called it then) about 15 years ago, I just kind of thought "Man, this is some expert level trolling", such was my belief that no one could TRULY be so exclusively and stodgily into all of this turn of the 60s/70s obscura ("Some IF for the weekend? Yes, some IF for the weekend."). I was certain that he was...you know..."doing a bit", playing a character, etc.
I say this to illustrate some personal belief that the deeper one goes into the dustiest and most far flung corners of the moss garden, the more - surely - unrewarding the experience must be.
I'm as huge a fan of Yes as I am of anyone - partial to certain periods and records, for sure, but...like any number of artists (Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, the Rolling Stones, Love, Sly and the Family Stone) the outward shining goodwill from their best 3 or 4 LPs/10 or 12 tracks radiates a certain warming glow over the whole enterprise for me. Likewise, the sort of mellotron drenched balladry of the first Crimson record ("I Talk to the Wind" the title track, etc.) gets a big yes from me. Tull's "Living in the Past", that sort of thing.
The best of this stuff, for me, seems like one of the more valid (dead end or not) evolutionary outgrowths of the mid late 60s music scene (Move, Byrds, Hendrix, the Pink Floyd, Beach Boys, Zombies, post-LSD Beatles, Who, Cream, early Soft Machine, toytown psych, Who, Spirit), maybe more personally inspiring than the brown album stuff or the stodgiest of the hard rock business (Paul Rodgers going on about "the devil's daughter", that sort of thing).
It isn't my primary food group, and most of it leaves me fairly cold (it strikes me, in the main, as the type of milieu in which inspired people with good musical ideas can do a hell of a lot, whereas folks consciously "joining in" are gonna be a bit fucking grim). But, yeah, when you're on, you're on - and...I probably approach it as selectively and warily as I do most things. I mean, Gabriel era Genesis just looks like a fucking chore to me, and there's assuredly people who would despair to hear me say such a thing.
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prog
Dec 23, 2019 13:59:06 GMT
Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 23, 2019 13:59:06 GMT
The big hitters are a lot better than the rest. Yes and Genesis have their moments. Close to the Edge and The Lamb... are rich records, lots of ideas, impressive overall.
When it sucks it sucks harder than pretty much anything else.
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prog
Dec 23, 2019 14:40:09 GMT
Post by peregrine on Dec 23, 2019 14:40:09 GMT
My favourite prog bands are
1. Genesis 2. ELP 3. Yes 4. Colosseum 5. Caravan
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prog
Dec 23, 2019 15:58:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by fonz on Dec 23, 2019 15:58:18 GMT
I like Prog Metal. Leave the whimsical shit behind.
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prog
Dec 23, 2019 15:59:20 GMT
Post by peregrine on Dec 23, 2019 15:59:20 GMT
Prog Metal?
Hmmm...can you come up with some names?
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Deleted
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prog
Dec 23, 2019 16:24:59 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 16:24:59 GMT
The big hitters are a lot better than the rest. Yes and Genesis have their moments. Close to the Edge and The Lamb... are rich records, lots of ideas, impressive overall. Is this really true though? Post some tracks to state your case.
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prog
Dec 23, 2019 16:25:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by fonz on Dec 23, 2019 16:25:29 GMT
Dream Theater Fates Warning Queensryche Devin Townsend Opeth
That sort of thing
Those Seventies bands are a bit dull
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Deleted
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prog
Dec 23, 2019 16:32:29 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 16:32:29 GMT
Dream Theater Fates Warning Queensryche Devin Townsend Opeth That sort of thing Those Seventies bands are a bit dull Isn't that more metal?
Mind you I've heard it's a broad church.
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prog
Dec 23, 2019 17:16:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by fonz on Dec 23, 2019 17:16:18 GMT
Dream Theater Fates Warning Queensryche Devin Townsend Opeth That sort of thing Those Seventies bands are a bit dull Isn't that more metal?
Mind you I've heard it's a broad church. Sorry G. Replying to Peregrine’s question. I think you posted something a moment before my reply went up, so it looks a bit odd. But yes. Prog Metal. Noise, served nine ways since Sunday ( or whatever the kids are saying these days)
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