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Post by oh oooh on Oct 16, 2021 19:57:30 GMT
I do take your point about the mystery of the band. The fact that they were in the shadows, only a few black-and-white pictures existed. Lou didn't want to talk about them for years.
Still I think a lot of the magic remains. You feel it when watching this, maybe because it's all so many worlds away now. It's really an exhilarating experience seeing Warhol's screen tests, and then 'Venus In Furs' squealing out.
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Post by oh oooh on Oct 16, 2021 20:01:19 GMT
But they haven't really had the same kind of treatment that the Beach Boys, Bowie, the Stones et al have had. I'm always saying this I know but for a premier-league cult rock band they've been neglected over the years. This really is the least we should expect as fans. And it's definitive. And in truth therein was the appeal and that personal connection. Neglected is a funny word to use . You mean they were not exploited enough? We just need to know everything these days don't we. Yeah, maybe 'neglected' isn't quite right - but of course I'm not talking about exploitation either. I'm talking about preserving or enhancing the legacy. They were truly great, this isn't just me. They're up there with the very best bands. I dunno, maybe young people don't give much of a shit these days. It's Nirvana now, maybe the Clash, if you're looking for legacy acts with relevance.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2021 20:01:39 GMT
The Doors (who in many ways are comparable) are all over social media, remasters or 50th anniversary editions every six months, Krieger's got a book out and he's touring, 'is Jim really dead?' etc etc etc And just like Ray Manzarek and his anecdotes that became bigger and longer until you feel like he is talking about walking with Christ himself it never ends. I am happy with the art. Everything else is just not so appealing anymore. These things really explode when the main persona is dead, Simone,Curtis. Reed etc
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Post by oh oooh on Oct 16, 2021 20:03:17 GMT
I get it J. I really do.
Still....if you're a fan then you want to hear the stories, you want to see footage. That's natural. And this is respectful and not in any way shabby or exploitative.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2021 20:09:29 GMT
I get it J. I really do. Still....if you're a fan then you want to hear the stories, you want to see footage. That's natural. And this is respectful and not in any way shabby or exploitative. I know you get it. Your response confirms that. It's just the incessant demand to peek behind the curtains and detail, detail , detail. You see that there is always an audience for this kind of thing. Hell, the Hoffman forums are full of the minutae seekers. Expecting rain the Dylan forum is another place that in all honesty , actually scares me.
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Post by peter on Oct 17, 2021 20:20:52 GMT
I watched it in the cinema today. It reminded me a bit of No Direction Home. It was cinematic. Haynes' captured the kinetic energy in the air (I'm thinking especially of the split-screen parts).
I'm so glad they featured Jonathan Richman, the guy is engaging and sincere. He can talk so easily about music both in a technical and ethereal way. I knew he was a big fan, but seeing them live "60 to 70 times" back in 1968, wow.
Did I learn anything new? Not really, after reading a half a dozen books about VU & Lou there's not much information that hasn't already been explored - but its great to see the footage, hear the outtakes and contributions from the remaining people who were in the room.
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Sneelock
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Post by Sneelock on Oct 17, 2021 23:05:19 GMT
I did the "One Week Free" trick with Apple TV. i certainly got my Free's worth.
i dont guess i have anything bad to say about it.
i will say that if there are hours of footage of Mary Woronov Go-Go dancing i 'd like an opportunity to watch it.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Oct 19, 2021 22:38:05 GMT
I was disappointed.
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loveless
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Post by loveless on Oct 19, 2021 22:41:44 GMT
I really can't add much to what's been said already.
Richman's undimmed enthusiasm is probably the real highlight for me.
Cale comes off well.
Inevitably, if "we hated the hippies" is part of your self image/repertoire, you generally won't miss an opportunity to say it.
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loveless
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Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
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Post by loveless on Oct 19, 2021 22:44:18 GMT
But, yes - I may have needed something more than I got.
I certainly wasn't gonna miss it. It's like how I spent years saying that every schmuck and his brother has a box set, and the only act who actually deserves one is Sly and the Family Stone. Sure enough, I was gonna have to buy it when it finally came out, if only to keep up my end of the bargain. Doesn't mean I listened to it every day.
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loveless
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Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
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Post by loveless on Oct 19, 2021 22:48:48 GMT
Also - this may have been the first time that I realized that firing Cale and abandoning the more experimental edge seemed to be (in part) Lou Reed aggressively pushing towards the type of stardom he assuredly always felt that he deserved.
He got there eventually, I suppose.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Oct 19, 2021 22:52:11 GMT
Richman Was the highlight. Some actual childlike enthusiasm about the VU as opposed to art tossers pontificating. They overstated the artiness at the expense of the rock n roll. Ooo Lou Reed, poet, Rimbaud etc. Please.
Too much context as well (the NY art scene could have been dealt with quicker), too much faffing around - it took an age till we got to the VU - and not enough new info for me (hard when Lou and Morrison are dead of course). Loved Mo’s anti hippy digs but I wanted the tour of the US to be explored more. Cale is dignified.
I’ll tell you one thing though, you better believe that NY art scene and all those Factory types were probably the worst people in history. Fucking John Cage arsing about with a plate or some shit. People were right to laugh. You know that bit when the lass is smiling and posing whilst the band sit around? It was like watching Instagram being born before your eyes.
A mixed bag.
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loveless
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Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
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Post by loveless on Oct 19, 2021 23:07:30 GMT
Inevitably, if "we hated the hippies" is part of your self image/repertoire, you generally won't miss an opportunity to say it. Zappa really WAS the fifth Velvet!
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Post by oh oooh on Oct 19, 2021 23:10:53 GMT
But Cale's background was the avant-garde. LaMonte Young, Cage, all that drone stuff. That's at the heart of much of the early work so it's inevitable it was focused on.
Fair enough if you think it's silly or whatever but that's what made the band special, what gave them weight. Without it they'd have been just another bar band.
And the Factory stuff is cool, it was great to hear first-hand anecdotes. The place was a hive of creativity, nobody was sitting around - as they took pains to point out.
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loveless
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Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
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Post by loveless on Oct 19, 2021 23:21:13 GMT
But Cale's background was the avant-garde. LaMonte Young, Cage, all that drone stuff. That's at the heart of much of the early work so it's inevitable it was focused on. Fair enough if you think it's silly or whatever but that's what made the band special, what gave them weight. Without it they'd have been just another bar band. It's an important part of their musical origin story, BUT...my experience in the theater today was that 2/3 or 3/4 of the movie felt like "pre-history"/setup, and then once the Velvet Underground start recording, THAT story seems to fly by far too quickly (for me). I'd have taken 10 minutes on "The Gift" alone.
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