Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 16:39:12 GMT
Will it catch on?
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Post by sloopjohnc on Aug 3, 2020 17:00:56 GMT
More like catch and release.
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Punk
Aug 3, 2020 17:03:01 GMT
Post by sloopjohnc on Aug 3, 2020 17:03:01 GMT
I find it interesting that of the two DIY musical movements of the later '70s, hip hop is the one that's become dominant vs. punk. Punk has had its influence, but not like hip hop. It's even infiltrated that bastion of C&W music.
Why do we think that's so?
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Punk
Aug 3, 2020 17:31:00 GMT
Post by Charlie O. on Aug 3, 2020 17:31:00 GMT
That's a good question, and I don't know the answer.
On the other hand, punk never went away. There are still new young punk bands popping up everywhere all the time, which I think is wonderful (even if a lot of the actual music isn't).
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Punk
Aug 3, 2020 17:38:02 GMT
Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Aug 3, 2020 17:38:02 GMT
I find it interesting that of the two DIY musical movements of the later '70s, hip hop is the one that's become dominant vs. punk. Punk has had its influence, but not like hip hop. It's even infiltrated that bastion of C&W music. Why do we think that's so? It's like the difference between a punch-up and a protest march. Maybe.
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Punk
Aug 3, 2020 19:18:19 GMT
Post by sloopjohnc on Aug 3, 2020 19:18:19 GMT
This is going to sound superficial, but I think one of the reasons hip hop has increased and sustained popularity are the beats and the rhymes. Two of the most basic components of pop music. Like JC writes, punk is too in your face. Which is okay, that's what it's meant to be, but hip hop can be manipulated more easily.
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Post by fearlessfreap on Aug 4, 2020 18:14:41 GMT
In the US, punk was pretty elitist and snobbish, whereas hip hop was egalitarian.
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Punk
Aug 4, 2020 19:19:00 GMT
Post by Charlie O. on Aug 4, 2020 19:19:00 GMT
In the US, punk was pretty elitist and snobbish, whereas hip hop was egalitarian. Interesting observation, and absolutely right I think.
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Post by sloopjohnc on Aug 4, 2020 22:34:17 GMT
In the US, punk was pretty elitist and snobbish, whereas hip hop was egalitarian. Interesting observation, and absolutely right I think. I never thought so. Funny story though that proves the point. I've told this before. Black Flag were playing a theater in affluent Palo Alto, probably '83 or '84, and a friend of mine and I went. Waiting to get in, my friend leaned to me and said, "Being a punk in Palo Alto means you had to borrow your parents' Volvo and not the Porsche." We drove there in my '74 Dodge Colt, by the way.
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god
disambiguating goat herder
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Punk
Aug 4, 2020 22:45:12 GMT
Post by ~ / % ? * on Aug 4, 2020 22:45:12 GMT
In the US, you had to have the money to buy the UK imports before domestic releases came around. there was cache in having something first. There was probably more white, black , brown when punk first became and it was still connected to the greater rock scene. But once it became hardcore it was pretty much a white male thing with noticeable exceptions, which not coincidentally saw the rise of skinheads in the US, which always meant trouble and always meant racist. So I guess, initially elit-ist, then may be exclusionary, and then in the 90s mainstream with queer, female, and mixed subgenres.
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Punk
Aug 4, 2020 22:56:02 GMT
Post by Charlie O. on Aug 4, 2020 22:56:02 GMT
Interesting observation, and absolutely right I think. I never thought so. Elitist and snobbish in the sense of clique-ish. Punk artists, with some notable exceptions, weren't (and aren't) much interested in meeting the mainstream halfway - whereas hip-hop artists, with some notable exceptions, were.
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Punk
Aug 5, 2020 13:32:29 GMT
Post by sloopjohnc on Aug 5, 2020 13:32:29 GMT
Elitist and snobbish in the sense of clique-ish. Punk artists, with some notable exceptions, weren't (and aren't) much interested in meeting the mainstream halfway - whereas hip-hop artists, with some notable exceptions, were. Well, that's different. The SF Bay Area scene was big enough that you didn't need to buy imports if you didn't want to. And you had all the groups from LA coming up and playing. Also, the national scene was small enough that artists or bands would play San Francisco and Berkeley or clubs in the area.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 14:47:38 GMT
From a UK bias I've always took punk to be more of a youth scene of its own time, based on what was an already established rock sound, whereas hip-hop was a new mode of music which could diversify into various mainstream and underground markets.
Sonically, hip hop had a potential that punk couldn't match.
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Punk
Aug 5, 2020 15:59:34 GMT
Post by Sneelock on Aug 5, 2020 15:59:34 GMT
I used to call L.A. "Hardcore" punks "chollos" mainly because they all dressed the same & loved starting fights. on further reflection - they were mostly kids "lashing out" at well heeled parents - weren't they? mostly upper middle class I'd guess.
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Deleted
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Punk
Aug 5, 2020 17:17:57 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 17:17:57 GMT
Oh I'd say the scene was generally working class here from what I've heard and seen. The local stuff went the Oi! route pretty quickly (Toy Dolls, Red Alert etc) or anarcho (Upstarts). It probably fed into 80s rave culture in the North East most directly.
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