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god
disambiguating goat herder
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Men
Nov 20, 2020 15:04:26 GMT
Post by ~ / % ? * on Nov 20, 2020 15:04:26 GMT
Masculinity hasn't been labeled "toxic." Shitty behavior undertaken by men has been labeled as "toxic masculinity," and it is very much a real thing, and very much a thing that needs to be stopped. Well that's on them as individuals. We don't pejoratively talk about women behaving in shitty ways as if this is related to their femininity. The inference here is that masculinity is "toxic" somehow at a very basic level and needs to be changed under the auspices of women, of course, rather than seeing people as individuals and basically arseholes behaving like arseholes. I think as you said at top the thread in a very apologist way, "they had to carry a heavy load" acting shitty became what was masculinity for many.
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Deleted
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Nov 20, 2020 15:06:21 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 15:06:21 GMT
Think you need to use the BBCode tab when replying big lad.
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
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Men
Nov 20, 2020 15:16:34 GMT
Post by ~ / % ? * on Nov 20, 2020 15:16:34 GMT
Think you need to use the BBCode tab when replying big lad. Don't have to when replying to you, I'm in Preview, I think goatboy is trying to block me or something. Thanks for the heads up though, learnt something.
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Men
Nov 20, 2020 15:38:53 GMT
Post by Reactionary Rage on Nov 20, 2020 15:38:53 GMT
I think as you said at top the thread in a very apologist way, "they had to carry a heavy load" acting shitty became what was masculinity for many. No. It wasn't making excuses for bad behaviour or me trying to be an apologist for men treating women poorly. It was suggesting the psychological damage of the war was huge and that they had to internalise and compartmentalise this trauma in order to function and live a "normal" life. In a sense I see this as some kind of personal sacrifice, putting others before oneself essentially. Of course there were consequences (increased drinking, maybe violence, antisocial behaviour etc) but I was not being an apologist for abuse. It was trying to explain men's reluctance to talk about this stuff and trying to frame this as a necessary action of self preservation and one that was done to help facilitate moving on from the war.
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nolamike
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Post by nolamike on Nov 20, 2020 15:38:53 GMT
Masculinity hasn't been labeled "toxic." Shitty behavior undertaken by men has been labeled as "toxic masculinity," and it is very much a real thing, and very much a thing that needs to be stopped. Well that's on them as individuals. We don't pejoratively talk about women behaving in shitty ways as if this is related to their femininity. The inference here is that masculinity is "toxic" somehow at a very basic level and needs to be changed under the auspices of women, of course, rather than seeing people as individuals and basically arseholes behaving like arseholes. The issue, though, is that for whatever reason, its behavior that seems to spread in groups of men. And it's always directed against those viewed as less masculine, be it women, gay or trans men, or just physically smaller/weaker guys who don't have an "alpha" personality. And it's often enforced through violence. It's much more than just a few assholes here and there. Having gone to an all-boys' high school, having worked in a shipyard with an almost entirely male workforce, having just lived in modern society, it's obvious to me that it's an issue bigger than just a few isolated people.
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Deleted
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Men
Nov 20, 2020 15:45:44 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 15:45:44 GMT
I don't think using schools is the best example. Boys are still finding themselves and developing. As for your jobs and modern society, its down to where you live though. If you had said you'd live in 5 different countries and it's all the same, then aye you might have a point. There's too many factors to take in to make concrete views on this.
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
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Men
Nov 20, 2020 15:47:16 GMT
Post by ~ / % ? * on Nov 20, 2020 15:47:16 GMT
I think as you said at top the thread in a very apologist way, "they had to carry a heavy load" acting shitty became what was masculinity for many. No. It wasn't making excuses for bad behaviour or me trying to be an apologist for men treating women poorly. It was suggesting the psychological damage of the war was huge and that they had to internalise and compartmentalise this trauma in order to function and live a "normal" life. In a sense I see this as some kind of personal sacrifice, putting others before oneself essentially. Of course there were consequences (increased drinking, maybe violence, antisocial behaviour etc) but I was not being an apologist for abuse. It was trying to explain men's reluctance to talk about this stuff and trying to frame this as a necessary action of self preservation and one that was done to help facilitate moving on from the war. I think more than we think as fighting during World War II would now fall under war crimes for both sides, hence the trauma, not talking, etc.,
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Deleted
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Men
Nov 20, 2020 16:01:09 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 16:01:09 GMT
There should have been war crimes against british generals against their own men. I have been laughing and entertained by blackadder goes forth for years, until i looked a bit more in to the history. Fuck me, most of those men cold clinical cunts who thought the men were just fodder.
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Nov 20, 2020 16:08:52 GMT
There would should be war crimes against british generals against their own men. I have been laughing and entertained by blackadder goes forth for years, until i looked a bit more in to the history. Fuck me, most of those men cold clinical cunts who thought the men were just fodder. While I agree with this in general, no-one really took War Crimes seriously as a matter for international law until after WWII and the Geneva Convention (at least, not for the 'winners'), and while retroactive condemnation would be nice for the cunts in question, they're all dead.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 16:10:23 GMT
The point is that international mens day is meant to be about men changing from stoicism and more traditional displays, or lack of, emotional 'fortitude' and getting in touch with their emotions etc. I think he makes an interesting point. It’s been established that men are three times more likely than women to commit suicide. At least there are still some things that men do better than women.
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Deleted
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Nov 20, 2020 16:13:15 GMT
rayge likes this
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 16:13:15 GMT
There would should be war crimes against british generals against their own men. I have been laughing and entertained by blackadder goes forth for years, until i looked a bit more in to the history. Fuck me, most of those men cold clinical cunts who thought the men were just fodder. While I agree with this in general, no-one really took War Crimes seriously as a matter for international law until after WWII and the Geneva Convention (at least, not for the 'winners'), and while retroactive condemnation would be nice for the cunts in question, they're all dead. Yeah my grammar let me down there, i was trying to write "There should have been..."
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Deleted
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Men
Nov 20, 2020 16:14:53 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 16:14:53 GMT
It’s been established that men are three times more likely than women to commit suicide. At least there are still some things that men do better than women. G!!! I didn't know you had it in you.
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Deleted
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Men
Nov 20, 2020 16:22:14 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 16:22:14 GMT
Well that's on them as individuals. We don't pejoratively talk about women behaving in shitty ways as if this is related to their femininity. The inference here is that masculinity is "toxic" somehow at a very basic level and needs to be changed under the auspices of women, of course, rather than seeing people as individuals and basically arseholes behaving like arseholes. I think as you said at top the thread in a very apologist way, "they had to carry a heavy load" acting shitty became what was masculinity for many. He was talking about them having to live with the traumas of the war, not "acting shitty".
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Men
Nov 20, 2020 16:30:30 GMT
Post by DarknessFish on Nov 20, 2020 16:30:30 GMT
It’s been established that men are three times more likely than women to commit suicide. At least there are still some things that men do better than women. I was going to reply that women might be three times more annoying than men, but thought I might be trampling on a serious point. Glad you popped in.
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Deleted
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Men
Nov 20, 2020 16:31:34 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 16:31:34 GMT
At least there are still some things that men do better than women. I was going to reply that women might be three times more annoying than men, but thought I might be trampling on a serious point. Glad you popped in. Darkness!!!! yes boys.
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