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Post by *LORD 'X'* on Dec 7, 2020 19:30:36 GMT
Stevie, probably
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Post by fonz on Dec 7, 2020 19:32:01 GMT
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Post by bungo the mungo on Dec 7, 2020 19:32:58 GMT
Women must be flocking to Preludin after a thread like this.
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Post by fonz on Dec 7, 2020 19:34:53 GMT
Bollocks to this.
I want my rock stars to have a bit of mild misogyny about them. They aren’t my role models. They’re just entertainers, mainly from a different age.
If I wanted Paul Simon I’d ask for Paul Simon.
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Sneelock
god
Ice Cream by night
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Post by Sneelock on Dec 7, 2020 19:35:24 GMT
come for the misogyny, stay for the Mowtown thread!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 19:35:33 GMT
misogyny has become a preludin buzz-word. lots of accusations flying around and an undercurrent which is palpable. aftermath and between the buttons are probably my two favourite stones albums, but their view of women goes against the grain. under my thumb stupid girl out of time yesterday's papers backstreet girl etc. is it possible to separate the art from the sentiment? Let's ask the forum chicks .
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Post by *LORD 'X'* on Dec 7, 2020 19:41:13 GMT
Zep, Stones, Bowie, Lennon, Zappa, Neil - any major 60s/70s male stars who DIDN'T demonstrate misogyny on occasion? Dylan, Hendrix...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 19:42:00 GMT
Zep, Stones, Bowie, Lennon, Zappa, Neil - any major 60s/70s male stars who DIDN'T demonstrate misogyny on occasion? There's nuances isn't there. Some indulged/perpetuated it more than others.
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 7, 2020 19:42:07 GMT
Bollocks to this. I want my rock stars to have a bit of mild misogyny about them. They aren’t my role models. They’re just entertainers, mainly from a different age. If I wanted Paul Simon I’d ask for Paul Simon. yikes, I assume you are kidding You aren't going to find a cooler "rock star" Hendrix and he wasn't a misogynist (though he did have issues with race and women).
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Sneelock
god
Ice Cream by night
Posts: 9,087
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Post by Sneelock on Dec 7, 2020 19:42:21 GMT
Hey ~ / % ? *, where you goin' with that smart phone in your hand?
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Post by *LORD 'X'* on Dec 7, 2020 19:46:26 GMT
Zep, Stones, Bowie, Lennon, Zappa, Neil - any major 60s/70s male stars who DIDN'T demonstrate misogyny on occasion? There's nuances isn't there. Some indulged/perpetuated it more than others. Yeah. But the attitude that women were there to do things for them colours a lot of their lyrics. I'm not trying to make any kind of big point here, just the old line about 'different times'. I mentioned Stevie Wonder who I don't think showed any signs of misogyny in his music. I'd be genuinely interested to hear of any other names. It's not easy.
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Post by *LORD 'X'* on Dec 7, 2020 19:54:39 GMT
Actually now that I think about it maybe good old Ray Davies didn't go for that kind of thing. His songs tend not to deal with sex very much at ALL, maybe that's why.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 7, 2020 20:11:47 GMT
writing teachers say to write about what you know. the Beach Boys wrote songs about cars. the Stones wrote songs about stupid groupies. I don't think it's that straightforward. To some extent it was within the language of pop and they were taking generic themes. But you only need to compare them to their peers - who presumably also had groupies - to see they took it further and returned to this kind of lyric much more than The Who, Kinks or Beatles say. They did it for the macho swagger, and Sloop is right to say it comes from the blues, which they thought was cool. It's a black mark against them, but if I'm honest it doesn't stop me enjoying the songs which are so catchy you can get immersed into them while not really taking in the lyrics. The one I have most difficulty with is Backstreet Girl because it's a ballad and the lyrics are more upfront and harder to ignore. There's just a nastiness to it, which is a shame because it's a lovely melody.
How serious does one take Zep talking about a woman's soul being from below as an example? Is that misogyny on their part? or it blues tropes rooted in the mythologising and hoodoo of the blues as well as some out of date attitudes that may not necessarily be reflected in those paying tribute? A bit of both perhaps but I don't put too much emphasis on daft lines like that. They must have sounded silly at the time. That to me seems rather unthinking on Zeps part whereas the Stones songs sound way more pointed, more personal and therefore more problematic I guess. I agree though there is an element of the Stones playing up the macho swagger, the bad boy image, the yang to the Beatles "I wanna hold your hand" ying. Nowadays it just sounds a bit sad really but the tunes are crackers so who cares. Besides there is plenty stuff that came after that is crueler and uglier to me. Look at hip hop. I find certain things in modern pop uglier and more offensive you know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 20:17:15 GMT
Yeah I wouldn't disagree with that Dougie. I think The Stones are more problematic because they kept it going through the subsequent decades. I suspect Jagger's attitude would be pretty cynical 'we're just giving people what they want and it's only rock n' roll'.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 7, 2020 20:20:14 GMT
Can you give me examples from the 70s? I don't pay attention to lyrics that much ya see but, let's face it, Jagger often sounds like he's got Keef's balls in his mouth when he sings too. I struggle to understand a LOT of what he says lol
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