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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 7, 2020 20:21:02 GMT
Yeah I wouldn't disagree with that Dougie. I think The Stones are more problematic because they kept it going through the subsequent decades. I suspect Jagger's attitude would be pretty cynical 'we're just giving people what they want and it's only rock n' roll'. Ever the businessman.
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Sneelock
god
Ice Cream by night
Posts: 9,087
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Post by Sneelock on Dec 7, 2020 20:25:18 GMT
Jackson Browne's music is as wholesome as a glass of homogenized milk. Some people think he smacked Daryl Hannah around. Hopefully he didn't but, if he did, it's a good thing he didn't write any songs about it.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 7, 2020 20:28:33 GMT
probably for the best aye.
But if he had, it wouldn't make Late For The Sky less affecting.
as an aside, I still can't believe Neil Young ended up with Darryl hannah?!
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loveless
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Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
Posts: 3,001
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Post by loveless on Dec 7, 2020 20:30:56 GMT
Jagger (who is...77, 78 now?) has mentioned a few times recently, when asked about specific songs that are...you know..a bit "raw"...his latterday line of reasoning is "My God! I wouldn't dare write something like that nowadays! It's really a bit much!"
Not that the songs aren't classics, or that the lyrics don't 100% work (he'd be talking about things like "rape, murder..." or the whole of "Brown Sugar"), but he's acknowledging that certain edges get sanded off of a person the longer they live and that even allowing one's self to be that unabashedly graphic or taboo is such a long gone element to his own character. That there are (gradually) so many filters in place as we get into the age of grandchildren and so on...
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Sneelock
god
Ice Cream by night
Posts: 9,087
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Post by Sneelock on Dec 7, 2020 20:35:29 GMT
that makes sense. to belabor the point (a personal hobby of mine) I'll factor in that whole "bad boys of rock" thing. I mean the Pretty Things probably could have beaten the Stones with pool cues but the Stones had the "bad boy" rep. it was sort of their bag, wasn't it? the Beatles were smiling and the Stones looked high. it was their schtick. I love a good schtick. I can't get no respect (loosen tie)
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 7, 2020 20:36:51 GMT
Jagger (who is...77, 78 now?) has mentioned a few times recently, when asked about specific songs that are...you know..a bit "raw"...his latterday line of reasoning is "My God! I wouldn't dare write something like that nowadays! It's really a bit much!" I've heard Macca saying similar things about The Frog Chorus
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loveless
god
Bringing ballet to the masses. Sticking to the funk.
Posts: 3,001
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Post by loveless on Dec 7, 2020 20:42:14 GMT
Can you give me examples from the 70s? I don't pay attention to lyrics that much ya see but, let's face it, Jagger often sounds like he's got Keef's balls in his mouth when he sings too. I struggle to understand a LOT of what he says lol Well, there's the song "Keef's Balls in Me Mouth" from Emotional Rescue. I remember when I was in eighth grade, they put out some (in retrospect, really not very good) album called Undercover. I had to look up what song it was just now, but there was a line about "Feel the hot cum dripping on your thighs" that got quoted (I think in some "Fuck YEAH, man!" kind of way) in the Rolling Stone review, and I remember my eight grade art teacher (one of those "cool teachers" [he was actually a super cool dude] who would always want to talk to me about music, etc.) telling me how much he was enjoying the album and mentioning that song title ("Keef's Tits" or something), and...there's a lot going on there. The fact that Mick was 40, the fact that in the early/mid 80s the general temperature in many areas had not necessarily changed so much from, say, 1972, and...I dunno, I've got loads of friends who are educators 30-40 years on, and I can't remotely imagine any of them chatting to their students about "Keef's Tits".
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fange
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Listening to long jazz tracks
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Post by fange on Dec 7, 2020 20:43:21 GMT
I've always disliked some of those songs for this reason, in particular 'UMT'. But thankfully those kinda songs don't get written much any more
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Sneelock
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Ice Cream by night
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Post by Sneelock on Dec 7, 2020 20:44:38 GMT
loveless wrote:
...not if they know what's good for them.
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 7, 2020 20:46:08 GMT
I don't think it's that straightforward. To some extent it was within the language of pop and they were taking generic themes. But you only need to compare them to their peers - who presumably also had groupies - to see they took it further and returned to this kind of lyric much more than The Who, Kinks or Beatles say. They did it for the macho swagger, and Sloop is right to say it comes from the blues, which they thought was cool. It's a black mark against them, but if I'm honest it doesn't stop me enjoying the songs which are so catchy you can get immersed into them while not really taking in the lyrics. The one I have most difficulty with is Backstreet Girl because it's a ballad and the lyrics are more upfront and harder to ignore. There's just a nastiness to it, which is a shame because it's a lovely melody.
How serious does one take Zep talking about a woman's soul being from below as an example? Is that misogyny on their part? or it blues tropes rooted in the mythologising and hoodoo of the blues as well as some out of date attitudes that may not necessarily be reflected in those paying tribute? A bit of both perhaps but I don't put too much emphasis on daft lines like that. They must have sounded silly at the time. That to me seems rather unthinking on Zeps part whereas the Stones songs sound way more pointed, more personal and therefore more problematic I guess. I agree though there is an element of the Stones playing up the macho swagger, the bad boy image, the yang to the Beatles "I wanna hold your hand" ying. Nowadays it just sounds a bit sad really but the tunes are crackers so who cares. Besides there is plenty stuff that came after that is crueler and uglier to me. Look at hip hop. I find certain things in modern pop uglier and more offensive you know. Well, they tended to look at the women that hung around them as a commodity, the whole underage thing, the attack on the Life magazine reporter who toured with them that Peter Grant stopped (JPJ was not present, I believe), etc.,
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 7, 2020 20:48:09 GMT
Can you give me examples from the 70s? I don't pay attention to lyrics that much ya see but, let's face it, Jagger often sounds like he's got Keef's balls in his mouth when he sings too. I struggle to understand a LOT of what he says lol Well, there's the song "Keef's Balls in Me Mouth" from Emotional Rescue. I remember when I was in eighth grade, they put out some (in retrospect, really not very good) album called Undercover. I had to look up what song it was just now, but there was a line about "Feel the hot cum dripping on your thighs" that got quoted (I think in some "Fuck YEAH, man!" kind of way) in the Rolling Stone review, and I remember my eight grade art teacher (one of those "cool teachers" [he was actually a super cool dude] who would always want to talk to me about music, etc.) telling me how much he was enjoying the album and mentioning that song title ("Keef's Tits" or something), and...there's a lot going on there. The fact that Mick was 40, the fact that in the early/mid 80s the general temperature in many areas had not necessarily changed so much from, say, 1972, and...I dunno, I've got loads of friends who are educators 30-40 years on, and I can't remotely imagine any of them chatting to their students about "Keef's Tits". Yeah but is that any worse than Sloop hitting on Savoirfaire?
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Sneelock
god
Ice Cream by night
Posts: 9,087
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Post by Sneelock on Dec 7, 2020 20:48:29 GMT
uncovered! 80's Jagger answering machine message! "I can't come to the phone right now. I've got Keef's balls in me mouf. Please leave a message at the town"
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~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
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Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 7, 2020 20:50:02 GMT
Well, there's the song "Keef's Balls in Me Mouth" from Emotional Rescue. I remember when I was in eighth grade, they put out some (in retrospect, really not very good) album called Undercover. I had to look up what song it was just now, but there was a line about "Feel the hot cum dripping on your thighs" that got quoted (I think in some "Fuck YEAH, man!" kind of way) in the Rolling Stone review, and I remember my eight grade art teacher (one of those "cool teachers" [he was actually a super cool dude] who would always want to talk to me about music, etc.) telling me how much he was enjoying the album and mentioning that song title ("Keef's Tits" or something), and...there's a lot going on there. The fact that Mick was 40, the fact that in the early/mid 80s the general temperature in many areas had not necessarily changed so much from, say, 1972, and...I dunno, I've got loads of friends who are educators 30-40 years on, and I can't remotely imagine any of them chatting to their students about "Keef's Tits". Yeah but is that any worse than Sloop hitting on Savoirfaire? What happens in Manchester stays in Manchester.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 7, 2020 20:50:51 GMT
How serious does one take Zep talking about a woman's soul being from below as an example? Is that misogyny on their part? or it blues tropes rooted in the mythologising and hoodoo of the blues as well as some out of date attitudes that may not necessarily be reflected in those paying tribute? A bit of both perhaps but I don't put too much emphasis on daft lines like that. They must have sounded silly at the time. That to me seems rather unthinking on Zeps part whereas the Stones songs sound way more pointed, more personal and therefore more problematic I guess. I agree though there is an element of the Stones playing up the macho swagger, the bad boy image, the yang to the Beatles "I wanna hold your hand" ying. Nowadays it just sounds a bit sad really but the tunes are crackers so who cares. Besides there is plenty stuff that came after that is crueler and uglier to me. Look at hip hop. I find certain things in modern pop uglier and more offensive you know. Well, they tended to look at the women that hung around them as a commodity, the whole underage thing, the attack on the Life magazine reporter who toured with them that Peter Grant stopped (JPJ was not present, I believe), etc., That's a fair comment. Page and the young lass....De Barras? I mean, yeah. But then JPJ. It's a very murky area.
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 7, 2020 20:53:07 GMT
Yeah but is that any worse than Sloop hitting on Savoirfaire? What happens in Manchester stays in Manchester. There are photos you know
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