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Post by Stacy Heydon on Jun 26, 2023 15:25:33 GMT
Don't think anyone is having a go at Astley DF. The point JC is making is it's ironic to hear a guy cover a song decrying mindless pop when he himself was releasing mindless pop at the time. It seems that whatever meaning the song stood for at the time has been lost. But by the time he himself was 24 or 25, he'd got fed up of the mindless pop himself, and tried a career in a vaguely serious blue-eyed soul way. No idea if he was any good at that, and I ain't listening to any. I just don't think you'd expect him to stick to SAW just because he had a big hit when he was young. Is anyone saying that? Anyway, we're beginning to go round in circles, so I'm outta here!
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Jun 26, 2023 15:26:24 GMT
He looks great for 57, I'll say that for him.
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Post by davey on Jun 26, 2023 15:38:17 GMT
It’s just so EASY separating musicians into credible vs. non-credible piles. Enforcing those assignments gives us a sense of power or order or something.
I never really got why Astley was SO laughable (anymore than I got why The Smiths were so credible). Neither really captured my imagination in any way at all, good or bad.
I guess if you see Smiths songs as standing for something, and you see Astley as emblematic of some great wrong… maybe all of this strikes you as some great musical transgression. I just think it a guy and his band having a go at some shitty songs.
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Post by fonz on Jun 26, 2023 15:39:01 GMT
It’d be fun to see Moz do an Astley number or two, but I can’t see him being self-deprecating like that.
I get JC’s point. I think we all do really. It’s just good to tease, right?!
If Astley was doing a Maiden cover, or a Killing Joke pastiche I’d be livid.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Jun 26, 2023 15:40:54 GMT
It's always about the thread's intention, isn't it? There's always a tendency to naysay, to take the opposing view.
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Post by davey on Jun 26, 2023 15:52:33 GMT
Why do we do any of this?
I can’t explain to you why I’m still participating on a thread discussing the convergence of two acts I equally don’t care about. At some level, it must be the invitation to naysay.
So ‘nay.’
There. I’ve said it!
I can’t help but think that the whole ‘music-obsessive’ gestalt is really about claiming the right to confer greatness on one thing and valuelessness on another. It makes us feel important or something.
That’s what I find funny about this thread. You start off asking if we’re “okay” with it, as if some line had been crossed and it caused the universe some injury.
Nay.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2023 16:00:14 GMT
If him covering schmits songs pisses the cunt morrissey off, then i'm all for it.
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Post by davey on Jun 26, 2023 16:05:26 GMT
Maybe he’ll do Radiohead next.
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Post by fonz on Jun 26, 2023 16:13:18 GMT
Why do we do any of this? I can’t explain to you why I’m still participating on a thread discussing the convergence of two acts I equally don’t care about. At some level, it must be the invitation to naysay. So ‘nay.’ There. I’ve said it! I can’t help but think that the whole ‘music-obsessive’ gestalt is really about claiming the right to confer greatness on one thing and valuelessness on another. It makes us feel important or something. That’s what I find funny about this thread. You start off asking if we’re “okay” with it, as if some line had been crossed and it caused the universe some injury. Nay. You don’t care about either artist - and that’s fine. But The Smiths DID mean a lot to a lot of people- folks who would have condemned Astley to a Dante circle of hell. They were polar opposites of what was (!) considered good taste. That’s why he was up on stage at Glasto; partly to entertain but partly to stick two fingers up at the ‘indie’ crowd that snubbed him 35 years ago. Maybe you had to be ‘there’ ( England) all those years ago, and going through yer teens with either Moz or Rick as your guide. No one’s going to lose sleep over it.
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Post by Charlie O. on Jun 26, 2023 16:19:21 GMT
If him covering schmits songs pisses the cunt morrissey off, then i'm all for it. There is that.
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Post by davey on Jun 26, 2023 16:27:02 GMT
Why do we do any of this? I can’t explain to you why I’m still participating on a thread discussing the convergence of two acts I equally don’t care about. At some level, it must be the invitation to naysay. So ‘nay.’ There. I’ve said it! I can’t help but think that the whole ‘music-obsessive’ gestalt is really about claiming the right to confer greatness on one thing and valuelessness on another. It makes us feel important or something. That’s what I find funny about this thread. You start off asking if we’re “okay” with it, as if some line had been crossed and it caused the universe some injury. Nay. You don’t care about either artist - and that’s fine. But The Smiths DID mean a lot to a lot of people- folks who would have condemned Astley to a Dante circle of hell. They were polar opposites of what was (!) considered good taste. That’s why he was up on stage at Glasto; partly to entertain but partly to stick two fingers up at the ‘indie’ crowd that snubbed him 35 years ago. Maybe you had to be ‘there’ ( England) all those years ago, and going through yer teens with either Moz or Rick as your guide. No one’s going to lose sleep over it. At what point are the old wars over? When you’re young and trying to define yourself, maybe you need to choose a guide. But if you get into later years and you’re still attached to all that…what does it say?
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rayge
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Post by rayge on Jun 26, 2023 16:34:55 GMT
It'll never make five pages...oh
FWIW I was a Smiths fan, but haven't listened to any for decades - they were of their time, and I, being in my 30s then, didn't get any great teen attachment to them - and didn't like SAW's Motown pastiches much - especially Jason fucking Donovan, that era's Fabian - but they were far from the worst thing around at the time. And Astley had a decent voice, certainly better than, say Simon Le Bon. I don't see how you make the assumption that he personifies the stuff that got up Stephen's fanny, John: I rather suspect he was excoriating hip-hop and disco. I can't say I'm bothered, really.
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Post by Mr. FOLLARD on Jun 26, 2023 18:02:51 GMT
Why do we do any of this? I can’t explain to you why I’m still participating on a thread discussing the convergence of two acts I equally don’t care about. At some level, it must be the invitation to naysay. So ‘nay.’ There. I’ve said it! I can’t help but think that the whole ‘music-obsessive’ gestalt is really about claiming the right to confer greatness on one thing and valuelessness on another. It makes us feel important or something. Erm....it's just about personal preferences, you pompous prig.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2023 18:26:27 GMT
Prig LOL, haven't heard that in ages.
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toomanyhatz
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Post by toomanyhatz on Jun 26, 2023 18:39:00 GMT
Then there's me: "kind of the middle of that, kind of like lukewarm water."
Look, I can pretend all day I don't know what this is about, but the fact of the matter is I totally get what JC is saying here. The Smiths mean a lot to people. They don't to me, but if they did, I can certainly imagine being offended by the idea of a talented but maligned artist trying to use their work in an effort to obtain credibility.
Do I want him flogged at high noon? No. But I'm not buying into the 'good songs done well. It's all that counts' narrative either.
We're pretty much all older people now. Imagine it's Rhianna doing Tom Waits songs or something. I can't imagine any of us here wouldn't be the least bit tempted to shake our fists and eject her from our lawn. Even though she could 'technically' 'sing them better' without a doubt.
The point of songwriting obviously goes beyond just performing them competently. Whether you agree or support what they're trying to communicate or not, I don't think anyone thinks the main point of any Smiths song is "Rick Astley's kind of cool after all."
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