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Post by davey on Aug 3, 2023 16:24:54 GMT
How did your friend dismiss your story about the writer? Did she engage at all? She didn't. My point was that the flag meant something completely different to the oppressed population that was subjugated and enslaved for 400 FUCKING years. I was talking to my daughter about the incident - my daughter thinks I'm a Republican and I think I have pretty progressive views. As I mentioned, this woman has a pretty politically progressive point of view and is really down for women's rights. I pointed this out to my daughter and she said, and I'm paraphrasing, "Yeah, I bet she's down for women's rights, but white women's rights for college educated women like her." I had never thought about it that way, but she was right. I had never thought about it that way. That her view of women's rights was a bit myopic in its panorama. As Tip O'Neill said, "All politics are local," and that extends to how it affects you, your friends and family or people you identify with. I don't know if this comment will affect our friendship. A couple weeks ago, we were discussing our past relationship on a walk and I said, "I basically lost out to a vibrator." This is not the most offensive thing I've said. How sensitive is she to subtle sexism? Maybe she could understand the comparison? |
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Sneelock
god
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Post by Sneelock on Aug 3, 2023 16:25:42 GMT
davey:
sure, I get that. it's like making swastikas on your pee-chee folder as a kid. you either stop doing it when you find out more about them or you start wearing a dog collar. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2023 16:33:00 GMT
The scary things about flags and symbols is that there's probably ones that you use or see everyday that if you dug deeper in to it dan brown style, you'd be shocked yourself. Most of us know the history of this specific flag but there's grey area all over this type of subject. One that springs to mind is should asians stop using the Swastika as a symbol of good luck because ze nazis appropriated as a sign of evil centuries after the asians invented? it. I think there was a case where a spa had to dig up stone floor plates because someone complained about the symbol being on it. Some will dismiss this but i'm using it as an example of the "grey area". The BBC got a shit load of complaints because a GAA jersey with Irish symbols on it appeared on a st paddy's day episode of eastenders  . People saw a connection to the IRA. |
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Post by sloopjohnc on Aug 3, 2023 16:33:03 GMT
I said that may be true in the south, but everywhere else it shows you're racist. Even if you don't feel that way, you should understand the ramifications it means to other people.
I'm sure she does understand after your lecture but she has a different pov and she, presumably, knows her neighbour which you, presumably don't. I would suggest "agree to disagree" and simply move on. It's hardly worth potentially spoiling a friendship over. She brought that up. She isn't religious now, but she comes from a very Catholic family. She brought up the example of her step-mom being against abortion while she isn't. They both know where each other stands so don't talk about it. When I asked her how she could be "non judgmental" about an issue like we were discussing, she brought up how America is so divided now and how we need to understand each other to get along better. Some things work out in theory better than they do in practice. Like Satanic Majesties Request. My reply was that I understood the whole Southern pride thing, but if you can't or won't understand the broader ramifications, you deserve to be viewed as a toothless, cousin-fucking cracker. There is some ground I'm not willing to concede just so you like me or don't feel offended. |
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Sneelock
god
Better than Washington...
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Post by Sneelock on Aug 3, 2023 16:36:14 GMT
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Post by sloopjohnc on Aug 3, 2023 16:37:53 GMT
She didn't. My point was that the flag meant something completely different to the oppressed population that was subjugated and enslaved for 400 FUCKING years. I was talking to my daughter about the incident - my daughter thinks I'm a Republican and I think I have pretty progressive views. As I mentioned, this woman has a pretty politically progressive point of view and is really down for women's rights. I pointed this out to my daughter and she said, and I'm paraphrasing, "Yeah, I bet she's down for women's rights, but white women's rights for college educated women like her." I had never thought about it that way, but she was right. I had never thought about it that way. That her view of women's rights was a bit myopic in its panorama. As Tip O'Neill said, "All politics are local," and that extends to how it affects you, your friends and family or people you identify with. I don't know if this comment will affect our friendship. A couple weeks ago, we were discussing our past relationship on a walk and I said, "I basically lost out to a vibrator." This is not the most offensive thing I've said. How sensitive is she to subtle sexism? Maybe she could understand the comparison? Maybe. We've talked about sexism. Sometimes I've raised points about men's or society's evolution and it's been countered with, "It's getting incrementally better, but still sucks." Like I mentioned, she's an architect, which is a male dominated profession and she was an army brat, raised on bases around the world. Her dad is not the most enlightened guy, I take it. A lot of her family isn't either, I take it. She got out because she had a big brain and knew what she wanted to do from a young age. It exposed her to a world most of her family isn't exposed to. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2023 16:40:16 GMT
Is this all happening Oregon or Eugene or wherever you live?
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Post by davey on Aug 3, 2023 16:41:38 GMT
The scary things about flags and symbols is that there's probably ones that you use or see everyday that if you dug deeper in to it dan brown style, you'd be shocked yourself. Most of us know the history of this specific flag but there's grey area all over this type of subject. One that springs to mind is should asians stop using the Swastika as a symbol of good luck because ze nazis appropriated as a sign of evil centuries after the asians invented? it. I think there was a case where a spa had to dig up stone floor plates because someone complained about the symbol being on it. Some will dismiss this but i'm using it as an example of the "grey area". The BBC got a shit load of complaints because a GAA jersey with Irish symbols on it appeared on a st paddy's day episode of eastenders . People saw a connection to the IRA. This is just dull ‘whataboutism.’ It isn’t that complicated, and the area isn’t all that grey. We don’t have to dig into the history of every other flag on earth to know that the flag of the confederacy (which literally arose to defend slavery) connotes racism. The whole, ‘this water is so muddy…it’s hard to see anything clearly’ shtick is transparent. Please kindly fuck off with that. |
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Post by fearlessfreap on Aug 3, 2023 16:44:16 GMT
Another thing - a well meaning southern person can say the flag doesn't necessarily mean slavery or secession from the US because they used to feel it meant southern pride, but things change and now it does. When I was younger, a popular expression for saying something was uncool or lame was "that's so gay!" I used to say that all the time, but I don't any more.
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Post by sloopjohnc on Aug 3, 2023 16:48:55 GMT
Is this all happening Oregon or Eugene or wherever you live? It is. But it's not really relevant. She was brought up on army bases in Germany and the south. She largely grew up in So. Carolina, got her undergrad degree at Clemson, her masters at Univ. of Tennessee and married and raised her kids in Georgia and Tennessee. She doesn't have a southern accent and she refers to the south as the "Angry South," but sometimes you become a product of your place whether you think you are or not. I'm sure Davey and Hatz have tried to correct misconceptions of California and Californians on occasion. We're hella not the same, dude. |
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Post by davey on Aug 3, 2023 16:49:12 GMT
Another thing - a well meaning southern person can say the flag doesn't necessarily mean slavery or secession from the US because they used to feel it meant southern pride, but things change and now it does. When I was younger, a popular expression for saying something was uncool or lame was "that's so gay!" I used to say that all the time, but I don't any more. …because someone told you that it was hurtful. And because you’re not a dick…you listened and adjusted. That’s the whole crux here. Some folks refuse to listen or adjust. They are what is called in intellectual circles: assholes. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2023 16:52:14 GMT
Is this all happening Oregon or Eugene or wherever you live? It is. But it's not really relevant. I'm asking because if she lives there, wasn't there race riots of sorts in Oregon or portland that made the news? Hope she didn't fly the flag during that. |
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Post by Reactionary Rage on Aug 3, 2023 16:52:41 GMT
I said that may be true in the south, but everywhere else it shows you're racist. Even if you don't feel that way, you should understand the ramifications it means to other people.
I'm sure she does understand after your lecture but she has a different pov and she, presumably, knows her neighbour which you, presumably don't. I would suggest "agree to disagree" and simply move on. It's hardly worth potentially spoiling a friendship over. She brought that up. She isn't religious now, but she comes from a very Catholic family. She brought up the example of her step-mom being against abortion while she isn't. They both know where each other stands so don't talk about it. When I asked her how she could be "non judgmental" about an issue like we were discussing, she brought up how America is so divided now and how we need to understand each other to get along better. Some things work out in theory better than they do in practice. Like Satanic Majesties Request. My reply was that I understood the whole Southern pride thing, but if you can't or won't understand the broader ramifications, you deserve to be viewed as a toothless, cousin-fucking cracker.There is some ground I'm not willing to concede just so you like me or don't feel offended. Charming! Your friend sounds alright! I think I'm starting to like her! What are you looking for here Sloop? None of the yanks are going to agree with her are they? They're just gonna blow smoke up your arse. |
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Sneelock
god
Better than Washington...
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Post by Sneelock on Aug 3, 2023 16:54:36 GMT
guys like Desantis are once again trying to frame the Flag of the Confederacy as a benign symbol of the antebellum south invoking mint juleps and petticoats! what a crock of shit!
all these "anti-w-o-k-e" education reforms about slavery are just rebooting that whole preposterous"Lost Cause" view of the Civil War. I grew up with old textbooks that sold that shit. I find it repulsive to think that new ones are being printed that are even more regressive.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2023 16:59:19 GMT
I think you want to get freaky with her again but not feel bad about the flag thing. We won't tell, well, some of us.
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. People saw a connection to the IRA.
