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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2022 15:24:47 GMT
I'm sure that's true, and I think Toby acknowledges that in noting that it happened in a city that's far more socially progressive than most British cities. Still, it's an abnormally high number and so can be seen as a valid example of a social contagion. The question is, as Hatz mentions in his opening post, is whether it's just a trend, like flirting with bisexuality was in the early 80s. Is there a proper number of trans people that we need to keep under? No, but this is clearly an abnormally high figure is it not? I mean we're surely allowed to say that - it's not making any judgement, negative or otherwise.
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Post by davey on Aug 4, 2022 15:29:39 GMT
I think recommending someone to have a few therapy sessions before transitioning is a pretty sensible suggestion. What makes you think that isn't standard practice already when it obviously is. Whenever I read about a “sensible suggestion” like this, I start to wonder if a law isn’t far behind. If the medical community settles on an ethical norm requiring therapy prior to treatment, I’m fine with that. But if the government or some voter referendum starts trying to impose ‘sensible’ requirements - they can fuck right off.
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Post by davey on Aug 4, 2022 15:32:23 GMT
Is there a proper number of trans people that we need to keep under? No, but this is clearly an abnormally high figure is it not? I mean we're surely allowed to say that - it's not making any judgement, negative or otherwise. You are allowed to say anything. I’m just pointing out the assumption embedded in all of this ‘social contagion’ talk.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2022 15:34:04 GMT
The NHS have been offering sex change operations since the 70s anyway, why the sudden concern or implication that these things are being done without proper support. It feels like a non-issue to me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2022 15:34:39 GMT
No, but this is clearly an abnormally high figure is it not? I mean we're surely allowed to say that - it's not making any judgement, negative or otherwise. You are allowed to say anything. I’m just pointing out the assumption embedded in all of this ‘social contagion’ talk. No assumption from me.
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Post by davey on Aug 4, 2022 15:35:33 GMT
The NHS have been offering sex change operations since the 70s anyway, why the sudden concern or implication that these things are being done without proper support. It feels like a non-issue to me. The phrase is “moral panic.”
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Post by davey on Aug 4, 2022 15:45:52 GMT
You are allowed to say anything. I’m just pointing out the assumption embedded in all of this ‘social contagion’ talk. No assumption from me. Whenever you hear stats like that, they tend to be offered as a worry. So let’s be explicit. What is it that we are worried about? Thus far on this thread, Toby has mentioned the sanctity of the sporting arena, which simply doesn’t seem like an overwhelmingly compelling issue. Otherwise… what?
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Post by Markus on Aug 4, 2022 15:46:23 GMT
The NHS have been offering sex change operations since the 70s anyway, why the sudden concern or implication that these things are being done without proper support. It feels like a non-issue to me. Yeah but britain isn't the only place that does sex changes, is this services offered in other countries too?
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Post by davey on Aug 4, 2022 15:51:35 GMT
Aren’t you a doctor, Doctor Markus? Surely you know!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2022 16:10:31 GMT
The NHS have been offering sex change operations since the 70s anyway, why the sudden concern or implication that these things are being done without proper support. It feels like a non-issue to me. Yeah but britain isn't the only place that does sex changes, is this services offered in other countries too? So you were commentating about all the countries in the world then? Can you tell me about how their practices differ from each other and why we should be concerned?
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Post by Markus on Aug 4, 2022 16:13:23 GMT
Yeah but britain isn't the only place that does sex changes, is this services offered in other countries too? So you were commentating about all the countries in the world then? Can you tell me about how their practices differ from each other and why we should be concerned? Fuck off G. I think therapy should be available first in any country that does sex changes. You're making a simple statement a lot more complicated than it is. You're just asking to bring back............"Oh G".
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Post by davey on Aug 4, 2022 16:25:17 GMT
Can anyone name a country where gender-related surgery is done but therapy isn’t available?
Does such a place exist?
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toomanyhatz
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Post by toomanyhatz on Aug 4, 2022 16:49:06 GMT
Can anyone name a country where gender-related surgery is done but therapy isn’t available? Does such a place exist? I very much doubt it. There are, of course, countries in which homosexuality is punishable by death. So while I agree that a more 'permissive' society can trigger issues that require serious debate (and I'm pleasantly surprised that we seem to be up for it, give or take a dismissive emoticon or two), a bit of perspective will always be necessary.
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Sneelock
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Better than Washington...
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Post by Sneelock on Aug 4, 2022 16:53:24 GMT
a lot of us Boomers grew up hearing about Christene Jorgensen. She transitioned in, what, the 50's?
these issues have been parsed and studied for a long time. you learn as you go along. while I think it's easy to dwell on the "too young to make such a serious choice" side of this that most of the people talking like this are pretending that transitioning is a sudden Dr. Frankenstein type situation and it's not.
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toomanyhatz
god
I've met him/her. He/she's great!!
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Post by toomanyhatz on Aug 4, 2022 17:42:40 GMT
you learn as you go along. That's my key takeaway on the whole subject. Society has coped with the idea for a VERY long time now. Sure - not to this degree, and not in these numbers. But reckoning with it is always going to be healthier than not reckoning with it.
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