|
Post by clive gash on Dec 5, 2021 15:50:30 GMT
SALT of THE earth
|
|
|
Post by DarknessFish on Dec 5, 2021 16:07:45 GMT
Lower middle, I guess it has to be. Proper working class background, dad was a bus driver, mum worked part-time as a waitress. No educational qualifications to speak of, but I have a dull office job, no mortgage, no debts, one kid, one dog. Live in one of the cheaper houses in a posh part of a properly working class town.
|
|
|
Post by DayoRemix on Dec 5, 2021 16:17:57 GMT
|
|
|
Post by souphound on Dec 5, 2021 16:21:21 GMT
Does Canada, particularly the English speaking part adhere to the British class identity, the more laissez faire US definitions, or its own unique interpretation? Would it be different in the French areas?
I'd say it's closer to the US version. Our politicians love to talk about how hard they're working to keep middle-classes happy, which is something I hear a lot from the States as well. Maybe the Brits talk up the middle-classes as well, I dunno.
Regardless, we don't really have strong class system here like they do in the UK - there's no sense of "knowing ones place" at all, thankfully. I don't think it's much different in French Canada, but Souphound could probably speak to that better than I can.
I most certainly agree, it's very similar here. In fact, I had difficulty choosing where I fit in the scale. My job says I'm upper middle or something like that. My outlook on life is probably more lower-middle. One thing I especially don't like about such classifications though, in French, is the names given to them. Upper class is "classe supérieure". Berrrkkkk. Middle class is "classe moyenne". Average, really? Lower cass is "classe ouvrière". OK, I guess. I personally don't like classifications like this based on the opportunities you were given. I know some really classy people with low paying jobs and, probably more frequently, some people with no class at all in the economic upper crust. I like to thin kthat I will judge you based on your "person", not where you fit economically. I'm probably not as successful at it than I would like.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 16:33:07 GMT
i think i'm probably the only working class poster on here. I thought you seemed quite posh when I first met you A!
|
|
|
Post by bungo the mungo on Dec 5, 2021 16:36:20 GMT
i think i'm probably the only working class poster on here. I thought you seemed quite posh when I first met you A! i bettered myself, in true working class style, G.
|
|
rayge
Administrator
Invisible
Posts: 8,790
|
Post by rayge on Dec 5, 2021 16:45:58 GMT
Lower middle, I guess it has to be. Proper working class background, dad was a bus driver, mum worked part-time as a waitress. No educational qualifications to speak of, but I have a dull office job, no mortgage, no debts, one kid, one dog. Live in one of the cheaper houses in a posh part of a properly working class town. As a former sociologist I've no doubt you woud be put in middle-middle, or C1 in the aphabetical list they use now. Lower middle is drones like clerks or typists or telesales operatives or police constables (sergeants and above middle- or upper-middle middedeliberately provocative language - and why not? The whole thing* is nonsense anyway).
* sociology
|
|
|
Post by Reactionary Rage on Dec 5, 2021 16:50:07 GMT
This thread explains so much
|
|
|
Post by tory on Dec 5, 2021 17:22:46 GMT
It strikes me that here in the UK we are not defined so definitively as we were 50 years ago by class. It's still there, in the background, if you can imagine, a bit like resolution, whether hi or low res. I'm very much lower middle in origin, and probably middle middle now by income, location and profession. Britain is now very much a middle-class country compared to say, 1945, when 80% of the population was working class. 58% in 2019 according to this survey. It's interesting that the UK has a lower risk of losing middle-class jobs to automation than the OECD average. www.oecd.org/unitedkingdom/Middle-class-2019-United-Kingdom.pdf
|
|
~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
|
Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 5, 2021 17:47:55 GMT
Using 1945 as a barometer is a bit empty as the Post WWII, really the 50s were the boom for the middle class. One also has to take in consideration the mean income of those that consider themselves blue collar and real expenses at the time.
|
|
|
Post by tory on Dec 5, 2021 17:55:26 GMT
Not in the UK. Maybe in the USA, but not here.
The transition for the UK came during the eighties and nineties.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 18:00:27 GMT
It strikes me that here in the UK we are not defined so definitively as we were 50 years ago by class. It's still there, in the background, if you can imagine, a bit like resolution, whether hi or low res. I'm very much lower middle in origin, and probably middle middle now by income, location and profession. Britain is now very much a middle-class country compared to say, 1945, when 80% of the population was working class. 58% in 2019 according to this survey. It's interesting that the UK has a lower risk of losing middle-class jobs to automation than the OECD average. www.oecd.org/unitedkingdom/Middle-class-2019-United-Kingdom.pdfHmmmmm I agree with much of this but I would also add that how we define middle class is always a bit odd.... Right now a truck driver makes more than most junior doctors and a window fitter a few years ago could make a grand a day!!!!! Like another poster already said what a lot of pish!!!! Think we would really have to define the classes first before we made any grand assumptions.....
|
|
|
Post by oh oooh on Dec 5, 2021 18:04:40 GMT
I honestly don't think there's any point in trying to nail down defintions as they're very slippery things. We all have slightly different ideas of what we mean by 'working class' and 'middle class'.
On top of that, 'middle class' is used quite often as a pejorative in the UK, to describe things that are insubstantial, effeminate, or pretentious. Therefore people are reluctant sometimes to label themselves this way. And conversely, there's something STRONG and UNAFRAID about 'working class', so people will happily define themselves with that one.
The whole thing is a minefield. Fun, THO
|
|
~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
|
Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 5, 2021 18:06:44 GMT
Not in the UK. Maybe in the USA, but not here. The transition for the UK came during the eighties and nineties. Still it is very probable that many jobs and classifications once considered blue collar/working class were actually middle class by income. I realize the UK had a lag after the war, but there was growth during the 60s, then stagnation in the 70s.
|
|
~ / % ? *
god
disambiguating goat herder
Posts: 5,532
|
Post by ~ / % ? * on Dec 5, 2021 18:08:02 GMT
I honestly don't think there's any point in trying to nail down defintions as they're very slippery things. We all have slightly different ideas of what we mean by 'working class' and 'middle class'. On top of that, 'middle class' is used quite often as a pejorative in the UK, to describe things that are insubstantial, effeminate, or pretentious. Therefore people are reluctant sometimes to label themselves this way. And conversely, there's something STRONG and UNAFRAID about 'working class', so people will happily define themselves with that one. The whole thing is a minefield. Fun, THO Indeed, but one thing is clear one can't have a successful democracy without a middle class.
|
|